So, the Red Sox would almost certainly have to look outside the organization, possibly to the Triple-A ranks. Ryne Sandberg’s name could come up. His stock continued to climb after a fine year with the Phillies’ Triple-A affiliate, though I’m not sure his ideas would mesh with Boston’s. Rays bench coach Dave Martinez is a likely candidate; he’s likely to get an interview with the White Sox. The Twins’ Scott Ullger is another bench coach with managerial potential.
How about we just hire Francona?
Whoa, sorry. I was just having the most glorious dream, where the Twins were the kind of team that might hire Terry Francona.
Where do they get that? Does "managerial potential" come from living kind a long time and not quitting baseball?
Sometimes the only way to get rid of the inept is to promote them upward and hope they can somehow do better with more responsibility. Yeah, it never works.
And yet, seems to be, in my experience, the most common method of finding upper management personnel.
I believe Ullger is considered the next in line to manage the Twins if he sticks around until Gardy decides to step down. IIRC, Gardy has had him go from hitting coach, to third base coach , to bench coach to give him better experience to eventually help him in managing a team. He also managed in the minors and was the Cal League Manager of the Year at one point. So, next time someone asks the Twins to fire Gardy, remember who is next in line.
I don't see why the Mets blocked the temporary move to Newark except to just be jerks to the Yankees.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Staten Island would seem to make sense. IMRC, that's not a bad stadium, either. Right by the ferry terminal. Fans could commute from Manhattan for free.
Allentown/Lehigh Valley could work. The Iron Pigs drew quite well. But then again, sharing the area could hurt the Iron Pigs.
Rob Neyer redeems himself after his ugly "The Universe Should Want the Sox To Win" article earlier this week with an interesting look at "The New Moneyball".
The movie was good, by the way. I sort of cringed every time I saw Art Howe on screen, but overall, it was very good. Linds agreed wholeheartedly.
#winning!
Glad to see it was Verducci and not Neyer who specifically used the phrase "new Moneyball." I thought that meme had been retired five or six years ago at least.
Yeah, I cringed when I saw the title of the article, but it was an interesting read.
Heh, I wish that was the real Bill Simmons down in the comments.
I bet that was hard for ESPN to sell something to ABC.
Synergy!
It's good. I'm built like more of a sports fan than an athlete, too.
a Superfan, or just a regular fan?
Opposite side of the size spectrum. So, regular, I guess.
I'm just glad that we're finally going to be elucidated about Boston sports fans. I've spent far too much time wondering what they're like.
Like (bomb).
I got hungry, so I ate the turkey I brought for lunch. Not a sandwich, just a bunch of turkey.
I really like that Joe Maddon is starting Matt Moore in game 1. I don't have any idea how he'll do; I just like that Maddon is ignoring the conventional wisdom and is doing what he thinks is right.
I think we all have manager envy
What do you do with that envy? Why you just fire it through the Internet.
I was on my way back to the wgom to make this exact comment, so, I'll just let the stribers do it for me.
fjbarrowsSep. 29, 1111:50 PM
Hey, Baby Joe, do you see that? Surgery right after the season ends, not six weeks later. Guess Revere doesn't care about missing hunting season.
Twins righthander Nick Blackburn also is having surgery Sunday, to relieve pressure on a nerve in his right forearm muscle.
good thing it wasn't bilateral nerve weakness.
I heard the CoomDog on the radio while driving to school just now. It is hilarious just how low the bar is set to qualify as a baseball "expert" or "analyst" or whatever he is considered. He had NO INSIGHT into the playoffs at all besides "Boston shouldn't have fired Francona." Hard to come up with specific examples, but it was comical just how little he knew about Tampa Bay, for example.
Obviously, if you played a sport, you must be an expert at it. Just listen to Keyshawn Johnson or Shannon Sharpe explain football sometime.
Whaddya mean? He was on the air a few weeks ago talking about how he rode to Jeter's 30th birthday party with Clemens and Pettite. His take -- "Jeter runs in differenc circles than me." Now that's some quality insight!
My daughter was sent one of those. She doesn't wear it.
True story. Whem Miss SBG was 2 1/2, I asked her to sing the "Baseball Song" to her aunt. Before she could start, her aunt said, "We sing it better in Boston." I said, oh yeah?
Sing it, Miss SBG.
In a clear strong voice, she began, "We're gonna win, Twins..."
Target Field 3rd best stadium experience is all of sports (behind Lambeau and AT&T). Metrodome 2nd worst (ahead of Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, where they must beat their fans with lead pipes between periods).
The Trop is head of the Dome? Huh. Oh, because of the fan promotions, where they're #6.
because of this?
It looks like Tyner is doing the Cassell dance.
it's a tyny Cassell dance.
The Timberwolves are the second least likely team to win a championship in the lifetimes of their fans? I dispute that! No way the Vikings win before the Wolves.
The Wolves are 116th in effort and likablility of their players? I dispute that, too. Do they know that Johnny Flynn, Rashad McCants, and Michael Olowokandi are gone? And 121st in coaching? Hello, Rambis has been replaced by Rick Adelman. This was unnecessary piling on.
/rant
I was also curious about the stadium experience being so low. Is the Target Center really that bad? What does a basketball arena need other than a floor and some seats?
It's not as nice as XCEL Energy, that's for sure.
bathrooms.
Bathrooms are good, so long as they aren't troughs.
another strike against f'ing Boston and those hipster idiots at Wrigley.
Real celebrities courtside?
But, if they put those right around the middle, then the Timberwolves wouldn't be showing up on the list as one of the worst franchises in sports...
So your point is that the T'wolves are second, and the Vikings are first?
Is the Dome really that bad as a football stadium? I mean, the seats face the field of play, which is a huge improvement over the Dome as a baseball stadium.
They can't bitch about it as a baseball stadium anymore, but they want Minnesota to know that we're not forgiven for it.
So, I'm having this exchange on the Book of Face with one of my former grad students -- will Johnny Damon be elected to the HOF if he makes 3,000 hits, as seems plausible (he's over 2,700 at age 37).
I mean, seriously? Did I teach this kid NOTHING? He's a tenured professor at a major research university, for goodness sake. Damon has a career 105 OPS+, almost no black ink, only two ASG, zero fielding grammies. Why are we even discussing this?
It's a real discussion because he spent most of his career playing for or beating the big two.
I really don't think he'll make it, but there will at least be a half-assed debate in the media.
actually, he played for the plurality of his career with KC, and over half of his career with KC, Oakland, Detroit and Tampa. Although you can easily argue that his most famous years were with Boston and NYY (both ASG appearances were in his 4 years in Boston).
He was only a Sawk for four years? Wow, the media machine is powerful.
I think it's a legit discussion to have. Here's the list of players with 3,000+ hits who aren't in the HOF:
Pete Rose
Derek Jeter
Craig Biggio
Rafael Palmeiro
I would think that Jeter and Biggio are mortal locks for the HOF. Palmeiro would be a more interesting comparison if not for his positive test for Vitamin S. It would be totally unfair, but if Damon gets to 3,000 hits, he could get at least as much support as Edgar Martinez has/will. Surely he doesn't have a good peak, but he's got 7 seasons of 3+ fWAR under his belt, so he's not really chopped liver, either.
Palmeiro is an interesting comparison to Damon? Is not for vitamin S, he's an absolute lock. He's also got 500 taters mashed.
You're besmirching the taters by using them in reference to Raffie
I take it back, I was going off reputations rather than the numbers. I was thinking that voters would have considered both Palmeiro and Damon to be "compilers," but Palmeiro has 3 seasons with 6+ fWAR and 5 seasons with 5+ fWAR and Damon's career best fWAR is 4.6.
*DING DING DING*
pluse, Damon's name appears in the Mitchell Report the way Billy Beane wrote Moneyball, so he's besmirched.
I'll beat this dead horse one more time. Damon seems to have some gas left in his tank, but who is gonna pick him up for next year? He was mostly a DH this year for Tampa because his defensive skills have declined considerably. His DH slash line was 263/328/433, which is great if you are comparing him to Adam Done, but not so great if you are comparing him to actual DHs. And his second half (238/325/401) was considerably worse.
I suppose someone will give him a job, particularly if he shines in the postseason. But I'd think that his chances of falling off a cliff are considerable.
52 rWAR. If he makes it to 3,000 hits, presumably that would go up a few ticks to say, 55 rWAR. There's actually a reasonable defense for him being inducted. Checking FanGraphs, and they have him at 46 fWAR. Looks like ~2 wins is because of fielding, but not sure about the rest. Probably just differing replacement levels.
Er, that's supposed to be in reply to bS.
Here is a partial list of OFers above Damon in fWAR who are not and never will be in the HOF (unless the Veterans Committee pulls a fast one):
Devon White (tied at 46.0)
Brett Butler (46.6)
Dale Murphy (47.3)
Bernie Williams (47.5)
Roy White (47.5)
*J.D. Drew (47.6) -- ok, mebbe a miracle happens
Ellis Burks (48.2)
Tony Oliva (48.6)
Al Oliver (50.2)
George Foster (50.8)
Roy Thomas (51.8)
Moises Alou (51.8)
Mike Cameron (52.6)
Fred Lynn (53.8)
Jack Clark (53.9)
Cesar Cedeno (55.2)
Vada Pinson (56.4)
Rusty Staub (56.6)
Chet Lemon (56.9)
Rocky Colavito (59.0)
Brian Giles (59.2) <-- Giles has a MUCH better case on performance, if not counting stats
Luis Gonzalez (59.4)
Jimmy Wynn (60.7)
Bobby Abreu (62.6)
Willie Davis (63.3)
Bobby Bonds (63.3)
Kenny Lofton (66.3)
Tim Raines (70.9) -- I hope I am wrong. He certainly deserves to be in.
*Andruw Jones (71.7) -- ok, I could see arguments being made
Reggie Smith (71.8)
Larry Walker (73.2) -- I hope I am wrong. He certainly deserves to be in.
This is not to say that an argument won't be made for Damon. It's just that it would be a pretty weak one, along the lines that ubes identified. But if Damon gets more interest than Tim Raines has, for just one of many examples, that would be a crime against nature.
It's not that I disagree, but he's no Jim Rice. I was thinking he might be closer to Andre Dawson, but Dawson was actually elite for more than one year. And was overall a much better hitter.
Damon's career OPS+: 105. Rice's career OPS+: 128. Plus, you know, he was "most feared". Nobody fears Johnny Damon.
Years in which Rice's fWAR exceeded Damon's career high: 5 (8.1, 6.6, 6.3, 5.9, 5.1).
Dawson, of course, wipes the floor with Damon on the standard writers' love categories. He has a ROY, an MVP, , four Silver Sluggers, eight ASG selections and 8 fielding grammies to his credit, compared to Damon's zero, zero, zero, two and zero.
I don't know how you merit discussion for the HOF if your offensive performance (as measured by OPS+) is hardly above average and you've never been deemed a premier defensive player.
Which is identical to Bert's awards.
Not pointing that out to say the Damon ~ Bert (not. even. close), but seasonal awards should be the last thing we consider, if at all.
Please, keep throwing out his name for manager positions
How about we just hire Francona?
Whoa, sorry. I was just having the most glorious dream, where the Twins were the kind of team that might hire Terry Francona.
Where do they get that? Does "managerial potential" come from living kind a long time and not quitting baseball?
Sometimes the only way to get rid of the inept is to promote them upward and hope they can somehow do better with more responsibility. Yeah, it never works.
And yet, seems to be, in my experience, the most common method of finding upper management personnel.
I believe Ullger is considered the next in line to manage the Twins if he sticks around until Gardy decides to step down. IIRC, Gardy has had him go from hitting coach, to third base coach , to bench coach to give him better experience to eventually help him in managing a team. He also managed in the minors and was the Cal League Manager of the Year at one point. So, next time someone asks the Twins to fire Gardy, remember who is next in line.
May Gardy live forever.
So say we all
...remember who is next in line.
Jake Mauer?
Here's hoping they give Tom Nieto a shot.
He'll whip those malingerers into shape!
The Yankees AAA team is homeless.
I don't see why the Mets blocked the temporary move to Newark except to just be jerks to the Yankees.
You say that like it's a bad thing.
Staten Island would seem to make sense. IMRC, that's not a bad stadium, either. Right by the ferry terminal. Fans could commute from Manhattan for free.
Allentown/Lehigh Valley could work. The Iron Pigs drew quite well. But then again, sharing the area could hurt the Iron Pigs.
Rob Neyer redeems himself after his ugly "The Universe Should Want the Sox To Win" article earlier this week with an interesting look at "The New Moneyball".
The movie was good, by the way. I sort of cringed every time I saw Art Howe on screen, but overall, it was very good. Linds agreed wholeheartedly.
#winning!
Glad to see it was Verducci and not Neyer who specifically used the phrase "new Moneyball." I thought that meme had been retired five or six years ago at least.
Yeah, I cringed when I saw the title of the article, but it was an interesting read.
Sounds like you're cringing a lot lately, nibs.
very impressive turnout for what i thought was a throw away idea. anyway, be sure to get your entry in by 3pm CT for The Great WGOM 2011 MLB Playoff Brackef Competition!
Spooky, how is your Boston accent?
Heh, I wish that was the real Bill Simmons down in the comments.
I bet that was hard for ESPN to sell something to ABC.
Synergy!
It's good. I'm built like more of a sports fan than an athlete, too.
a Superfan, or just a regular fan?
Opposite side of the size spectrum. So, regular, I guess.
I'm just glad that we're finally going to be elucidated about Boston sports fans. I've spent far too much time wondering what they're like.
Like (bomb).
I got hungry, so I ate the turkey I brought for lunch. Not a sandwich, just a bunch of turkey.
I really like that Joe Maddon is starting Matt Moore in game 1. I don't have any idea how he'll do; I just like that Maddon is ignoring the conventional wisdom and is doing what he thinks is right.
I think we all have manager envy
What do you do with that envy? Why you just fire it through the Internet.
I think she's milking the attention.
revere to undergo knee surgery.
I was on my way back to the wgom to make this exact comment, so, I'll just let the stribers do it for me.
good thing it wasn't bilateral nerve weakness.
I heard the CoomDog on the radio while driving to school just now. It is hilarious just how low the bar is set to qualify as a baseball "expert" or "analyst" or whatever he is considered. He had NO INSIGHT into the playoffs at all besides "Boston shouldn't have fired Francona." Hard to come up with specific examples, but it was comical just how little he knew about Tampa Bay, for example.
Obviously, if you played a sport, you must be an expert at it. Just listen to Keyshawn Johnson or Shannon Sharpe explain football sometime.
Whaddya mean? He was on the air a few weeks ago talking about how he rode to Jeter's 30th birthday party with Clemens and Pettite. His take -- "Jeter runs in differenc circles than me." Now that's some quality insight!
2 more hours
until nightto get your brackets in.also, just in case you're wondering who will be cheering for who during the playoffs...
The texas bit is funny because it's true.
Pink. Hats.
My daughter was sent one of those. She doesn't wear it.
True story. Whem Miss SBG was 2 1/2, I asked her to sing the "Baseball Song" to her aunt. Before she could start, her aunt said, "We sing it better in Boston." I said, oh yeah?
Sing it, Miss SBG.
In a clear strong voice, she began, "We're gonna win, Twins..."
ESPN attempts to rank every team from the four "main" leagues.
Target Field 3rd best stadium experience is all of sports (behind Lambeau and AT&T). Metrodome 2nd worst (ahead of Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum, where they must beat their fans with lead pipes between periods).
The Trop is head of the Dome? Huh. Oh, because of the fan promotions, where they're #6.
because of this?
It looks like Tyner is doing the Cassell dance.
it's a tyny Cassell dance.
The Timberwolves are the second least likely team to win a championship in the lifetimes of their fans? I dispute that! No way the Vikings win before the Wolves.
The Wolves are 116th in effort and likablility of their players? I dispute that, too. Do they know that Johnny Flynn, Rashad McCants, and Michael Olowokandi are gone? And 121st in coaching? Hello, Rambis has been replaced by Rick Adelman. This was unnecessary piling on.
/rant
I was also curious about the stadium experience being so low. Is the Target Center really that bad? What does a basketball arena need other than a floor and some seats?
It's not as nice as XCEL Energy, that's for sure.
bathrooms.
Bathrooms are good, so long as they aren't troughs.
another strike against f'ing Boston and those hipster idiots at Wrigley.
Real celebrities courtside?
But, if they put those right around the middle, then the Timberwolves wouldn't be showing up on the list as one of the worst franchises in sports...
So your point is that the T'wolves are second, and the Vikings are first?
Is the Dome really that bad as a football stadium? I mean, the seats face the field of play, which is a huge improvement over the Dome as a baseball stadium.
They can't bitch about it as a baseball stadium anymore, but they want Minnesota to know that we're not forgiven for it.
So, I'm having this exchange on the Book of Face with one of my former grad students -- will Johnny Damon be elected to the HOF if he makes 3,000 hits, as seems plausible (he's over 2,700 at age 37).
I mean, seriously? Did I teach this kid NOTHING? He's a tenured professor at a major research university, for goodness sake. Damon has a career 105 OPS+, almost no black ink, only two ASG, zero fielding grammies. Why are we even discussing this?
It's a real discussion because he spent most of his career playing for or beating the big two.
I really don't think he'll make it, but there will at least be a half-assed debate in the media.
actually, he played for the plurality of his career with KC, and over half of his career with KC, Oakland, Detroit and Tampa. Although you can easily argue that his most famous years were with Boston and NYY (both ASG appearances were in his 4 years in Boston).
He was only a Sawk for four years? Wow, the media machine is powerful.
I think it's a legit discussion to have. Here's the list of players with 3,000+ hits who aren't in the HOF:
Pete Rose
Derek Jeter
Craig Biggio
Rafael Palmeiro
I would think that Jeter and Biggio are mortal locks for the HOF. Palmeiro would be a more interesting comparison if not for his positive test for Vitamin S. It would be totally unfair, but if Damon gets to 3,000 hits, he could get at least as much support as Edgar Martinez has/will. Surely he doesn't have a good peak, but he's got 7 seasons of 3+ fWAR under his belt, so he's not really chopped liver, either.
Palmeiro is an interesting comparison to Damon? Is not for vitamin S, he's an absolute lock. He's also got 500 taters mashed.
You're besmirching the taters by using them in reference to Raffie
I take it back, I was going off reputations rather than the numbers. I was thinking that voters would have considered both Palmeiro and Damon to be "compilers," but Palmeiro has 3 seasons with 6+ fWAR and 5 seasons with 5+ fWAR and Damon's career best fWAR is 4.6.
*DING DING DING*
pluse, Damon's name appears in the Mitchell Report the way Billy Beane wrote Moneyball, so he's besmirched.
I'll beat this dead horse one more time. Damon seems to have some gas left in his tank, but who is gonna pick him up for next year? He was mostly a DH this year for Tampa because his defensive skills have declined considerably. His DH slash line was 263/328/433, which is great if you are comparing him to Adam Done, but not so great if you are comparing him to actual DHs. And his second half (238/325/401) was considerably worse.
I suppose someone will give him a job, particularly if he shines in the postseason. But I'd think that his chances of falling off a cliff are considerable.
52 rWAR. If he makes it to 3,000 hits, presumably that would go up a few ticks to say, 55 rWAR. There's actually a reasonable defense for him being inducted. Checking FanGraphs, and they have him at 46 fWAR. Looks like ~2 wins is because of fielding, but not sure about the rest. Probably just differing replacement levels.
Er, that's supposed to be in reply to bS.
Here is a partial list of OFers above Damon in fWAR who are not and never will be in the HOF (unless the Veterans Committee pulls a fast one):
Devon White (tied at 46.0)
Brett Butler (46.6)
Dale Murphy (47.3)
Bernie Williams (47.5)
Roy White (47.5)
*J.D. Drew (47.6) -- ok, mebbe a miracle happens
Ellis Burks (48.2)
Tony Oliva (48.6)
Al Oliver (50.2)
George Foster (50.8)
Roy Thomas (51.8)
Moises Alou (51.8)
Mike Cameron (52.6)
Fred Lynn (53.8)
Jack Clark (53.9)
Cesar Cedeno (55.2)
Vada Pinson (56.4)
Rusty Staub (56.6)
Chet Lemon (56.9)
Rocky Colavito (59.0)
Brian Giles (59.2) <-- Giles has a MUCH better case on performance, if not counting stats Luis Gonzalez (59.4) Jimmy Wynn (60.7) Bobby Abreu (62.6) Willie Davis (63.3) Bobby Bonds (63.3) Kenny Lofton (66.3) Tim Raines (70.9) -- I hope I am wrong. He certainly deserves to be in. *Andruw Jones (71.7) -- ok, I could see arguments being made Reggie Smith (71.8) Larry Walker (73.2) -- I hope I am wrong. He certainly deserves to be in. This is not to say that an argument won't be made for Damon. It's just that it would be a pretty weak one, along the lines that ubes identified. But if Damon gets more interest than Tim Raines has, for just one of many examples, that would be a crime against nature.
It's not that I disagree, but he's no Jim Rice. I was thinking he might be closer to Andre Dawson, but Dawson was actually elite for more than one year. And was overall a much better hitter.
Damon's career OPS+: 105. Rice's career OPS+: 128. Plus, you know, he was "most feared". Nobody fears Johnny Damon.
Years in which Rice's fWAR exceeded Damon's career high: 5 (8.1, 6.6, 6.3, 5.9, 5.1).
Dawson, of course, wipes the floor with Damon on the standard writers' love categories. He has a ROY, an MVP, , four Silver Sluggers, eight ASG selections and 8 fielding grammies to his credit, compared to Damon's zero, zero, zero, two and zero.
I don't know how you merit discussion for the HOF if your offensive performance (as measured by OPS+) is hardly above average and you've never been deemed a premier defensive player.
Which is identical to Bert's awards.
Not pointing that out to say the Damon ~ Bert (not. even. close), but seasonal awards should be the last thing we consider, if at all.