Cup of Coffee

October 26, 2011: The System is Back Up

105 Comments

Last night there were thunderstorms here (but the rain was about a mile away...sigh) and my internet was down for three or four hours. It's embarrassing how much that sucked for me.

105 thoughts on “October 26, 2011: The System is Back Up”

  1. I live in the country, without a phone or cable line. My internet provider actually sends a microwave signal to a dish mounted on my house from about 50 miles away. It's not the fastest, and the signal tends to get lost in high winds, but it was our only other option besides cellular, which is about half again as expensive.

  2. After the college discussion of last week, what do people generally think of private vs public?

    I went to a large public university my first year and then transferred to a private university for my last 3 years. I got my masters at a large public university.

    As an undergrad, the public definitely had worse teachers overall but there was choice. At the private university, the quality of teacher was high but if you did get a bad one there was nothing you could do about it. That would be the only prof teaching the course that semester.

    For calc 2 my fresh year, I sat on the floor and had a 4pm MWF class just so I could take the good prof. The one I started with couldn't speak passable English.

    Of course, cost is obviously a factor.

    1. I went to a small public university (UW-Stout) and thought the program I was in was generally well run with good professors. I think I got my money's worth for the education and class sizes weren't too bad because enrollment wasn't ridiculous. The only time I ever had classes with about 200 were some general eds that I didn't really care if I got personal attention with or not. Plus, the in-state tuition was quite cheap and I don't currently have back breaking student loans.

    2. are you talking for-profit colleges (e.g., National University, University of Phoenix, etc.) when you say "private", or do you mean liberal arts colleges or major private universities (Ivy, Stanford, etc.)?

    3. I'll take Public over Private any day. I had no disadvantage in my job search having graduated from a Public university, and my student loans (what little I had) were paid off in my first year of work.

        1. Is it simplistic? The Milkmaid went to private school, and as a result we're only now - ten years later, with both of us working nearly the entire time and with some unwanted but very appreciated help from her parents with housing - about to be debt free. And by "about" I mean "in about a year and a half."

        2. Yeah, both choices DO work for some people, but those people either choose to be burdened with larger debt or have $$ and/or scholarships available to them. For many others (like me, or my daughter), though, that isn't an option.

          With the multitude of larger and smaller public colleges to choose from, a person can find one to his/her liking with a strong influence in his/her major AND with quality educators.

          btw, I find it humorous seeing Cletus and "Isn't that a little simplistic..." together 😉

          1. I wouldn't trade my experience at Carleton for anything--high tuition be damned. It was a great place to be for four years and a lot more to me than just a place to take classes. When I went to grad school at Minnesota, it just seemed like I was there to take classes and there wasn't much else to it. It was grad school, so it's different, but I loved my little liberal arts college.

            1. This.

              Additionally, in my experience (as a student and peer, and as a faculty member), liberal arts college training tends to be much, much better preparation for grad school.

              and lastly, the cost difference is overblown for the 99 percent (to borrow a phrase). My cocktail napkin rough estimate for out-of-pocket annual cost for Carleton today is mid-20Ks, compared to high-teens for a UC. We likely wouldn't qualify for any financial aid from the latter.

              1. Here is an interesting US News listing of "value" liberal arts colleges.

                By "value" they appear to mean some product of academic ranking and net cost of attendance. The methodology is more than a bit opaque, but they do list "percent receiving need-based grants" and "average discount" from the sticker price.

                Carleton is on the second page of this list. Its website provides some decent info on likely out-of-pocket costs via their net price estimator.

                  1. Engineering, where classes entitled "Communications" are all about Fourier transforms and other such stuff.

                2. I thought that St. John's University was a perfect way to start my trek towards an engineering degree. I was there for physics, and found that the experiences I had there were awesome, and that my grounding in physics and math were far, far above most students I graduated with at the University of MN.

                  From my experiences, I would certainly suggest private over public, even for engineering.

                    1. St. John's does do a serviceable job handling the pigskin. One of the other really awesome things about my time there was I got to know a few of the football players that were part of the championship team. More than a few of them were math or biology majors in addition to their football achievements. Even if it's not a Div. 1 school, you have to love your varsity athletes excelling in the classroom, too.

            2. Having had a grad experience and and undergrad experience at a big public university, I would say that the nature of grad school is a bit more solitary and lends itself more to being just a place to take classes. Especially staying at a dorm the first couple of years of undergrad, I didn't find it difficult to find a small community amongst the teeming masses. So I guess that's something I didn't think of on my first take on this subject: it definitely makes a difference whether you are living on campus or commuting. From a personal standpoint, I think that if I had been a commuting student as an undergrad, I would have gotten a lot more from my classes, but I would have graduated with very little social skill.

              Having attended a very small K-12, I'm sure that the liberal arts college experience is more personal, but I wouldn't write off undergrad at a big school as totally impersonal based on a grad school experience.

              1. our different experiences with undergrad --> grad school may reflect some of the differences between the hard sciences and the social sciences. although Carleton, for one, also has a pretty good track record of placing students in grad programs in physical and biological sciences.

                I spent a year at Spamtown Community College (between my first and second years at Carleton). I got some very good, personalized instruction there. Some of my peers were very smart. But the environment still was very, very different from Carleton where, basically, all of my peers were smart, ambitious, and intellectually curious. That makes for a tremendously empowering and invigorating social environment.

                That's not to say that we didn't party like idiot undergraduates. We certainly did. But the average classroom experience was conducted at a much higher level of discourse than was true at the community college. That in itself was a great lead-in for grad school.

                I know that you can have similar experiences in a big state school too. It's just harder to find it and sustain it.

                1. I guess it is relevant that I was in the lower division IT honors program, so my introductory science and math classes were basically all with smart, ambitious, and intellectually curious folks. There was definitely a difference between those courses and the rest.

            3. Average tuition at a private college last year: $42,224. Unemployment for college grads 24 and under: 9.4%, the highest since they started keeping track 25 years ago.

              Our student loan debt (accrued almost entirely in law school) is basically aother mortgage. And will be paid off in about the same time.

              1. see above. Average sticker price is not the same as average net cost. The net costs of privates and publics is a lot closer than the gross prices.

                1. I guess my point wasn't public v. private (tuition at the U has about tripled since I graduated 10 years ago) so much as it's really, REALLY expensive out there. So tuition be damned is easier said then done.

                  1. well, there's that.

                    We've benefitted from gifts to the chill'n from the grandparents, but also from steady investment in 529 accounts. Open those suckers when the kids are born and start socking away what you can!

                    1. We've had them going since before the kids were born, but I'm not optimistic that it will be enough.

                      "Sorry kids, Mom & Dad spent too much money on their own education."

                    2. some of these fancy-pants liberal arts colleges, such as Carleton, promise to make up the difference between what FAFSA says the expected family contribution should be and what the sticker price says. I was pretty scared that we wouldn't be able to afford to send the kids anywhere other than community college, but my recent calculations suggest that we are in good shape, assuming that the margin between our EFC and net cost isn't too great.

                      It behooves every Citizen with kids to be thinking about these issues well in advance, and to not assume that you can't afford to send your kid where he/she wants to go (and can get in). I ran across a nice article from Fidelity yesterday on these issues.

                    3. "Sorry kids, Mom & Dad spent too much money on their own education."

                      The director of Center for Innovative Teaching and Research at this school recently held a seminar about this issue, and the numbers were damning. He looked at the average cost of pursuing a masters degree in english and the average return on investment is pretty bleak. His conclusion was that spending the money on a masters degree in humanities essentially robs your kids of a college education.

                    4. the motto of the English master's degree: "Do you want fries with that?"

                      I should note that I came out of grad school with the same (or lesser) debt load as I went into grad school. I cannot recommend paying one's way through a Ph.D. program. Ever. And sure as hell not any master's program that isn't firmly tied to enhanced (expected) earnings in a profession. A Master's in English, unless you are also getting a teaching credential, is just asking for trouble, IMNSHO.

          2. Cletus always hamstrings me in these discussions!

            I understand the financial side. I guess I'm more curious to hear the other side. I know a lot of people swear by the small liberal arts colleges.

        3. I agree that both choices work for some people. I went through 25 years of public education (pre-school through many years of grad school) and I think it worked out well for me. There are some things I'd have done differently in retrospect, but I think I would still stick with my decision to attend public universities. In general, I do well learning concepts from textbooks and I don't mind being talked at non-interactively for lectures.

          On the other hand, my wife attended a private college and I think it was a perfect fit for her. She found the smaller classes more motivating, thrives on individual interaction with the instructor, and can struggle at times to learn concepts straight from a book. She was also able to participate in athletics, which was important for her. She also had a lot of help from her parents on tuition and graduated with relatively little debt. Money certainly matters, but for some it can be worth the added expense.

          One thing that I would say is that having a grad student as an instructor for an undergrad class at a large public school is not always a bad deal. There was a stigma attached to not getting a professor for some of those classes, but it's not uncommon for a grad student to relate better to the situation the undergrads are in and not take important fundamental concepts for granted. I think I'm generally better at teaching something I've recently learned than something I learned ages ago. I don't even know where I'd begin to teach someone to add and subtract, it's so second nature to me at this point.

          1. I agree on the grad student as teacher. The calc 2 instructor was a grad student and was the best I had. He admitted that he struggled in school and he really related to students and taught it as simplistically as he could.

    4. I started at a small public university (2 years @ UofM - Morris), transferred to a big public university (1.5 years @ UofM - TC) and finally earned my bachelor's from a small private school with a large online presence. In hindsight, I wish I could have been mature enough to appreciate the quality of the education in Morris or the amazing opportunity that the Twin Cities campus (location, program/class options, extra-curricular activites) afforded me. However, it was the support, flexibility and forward-looking use of distance based learning that finally allowed me to continue and complete my degree. Neither Morris nor the Twin Cities student services or career counseling offices ever provided me much direction.*

      *though it may be that I was just too immature to ask...

      1. Hey, my brother spent a year at Morris. That is one strange campus. (not so much the campus itself, but its place amongst nothing.)

        1. its place amongst nothing
          That's one of the main reasons I left. The other is that they didn't have much in the way of the sciences when I was there and I had an interest in wildlife biology.

      2. Also, my recently completed JD is from a private school and I wouldn't have minded attending the private law school in town /cough, DK's, cough/ both for the significantly lower tuition and for the "higher" national reputation.

        In my experience, both have benefits.

      3. This is similar to the route I (and others here I recall) took. Mine was NHCC for one and three-quarters years and then UMN-TC for another two years.

        1. Here in Seattle, it is a very popular option for students to take a year or two at a community college before enrolling at the University of Washington. Particularly for self-motivated students, that's not a bad way to save some money.

          1. Aye, it is.

            Word of warning, however. I counseled incoming transfer students from community colleges to UC-Davisville for several years. As much as I tried to warn them that their world was about to change drastically, MANY still struggled mightily to make the transition. Your point about self-motivation is really important.

            1. Change of venue is a huge deal. I struggled mightily in the transition from base classrooms and online courses to the rigors of grad school. I didn't really figure out what I needed to do to be successful until I was already guaranteed to graduate in the bottom 10%.

              Also, it took me a decade - literally - and a stint in the military to learn enough self-motivation to finish my undergraduate degree. If I'd started at a community college, I would likely still be searching for that elusive BA (or I'd have given up on higher education long ago).

            2. It's also important to recognize the social costs of transferring. Not being at a school for your freshman year really sets you back in getting to know your classmates.

              I really struggled with that after I transferred. It felt like I was the new kid for quite awhile. I didn't really start to enjoy it until my senior year and then it was done.

    5. Dr. Chop and I both went to UMD and have never regretted the choice. She was accepted to Harvard as an undergraduate, but even with the scholarship she was offered her first year including room and board would have cost her the total for 4 years of tuition at UMD. She is a first generation college student, first in the extended family to graduate, not to mention earning a player hating degree. Her financial situation essentially meant that she'd have to pay for everything herself, so she applied to every scholarship, every grant, and took out student loans to cover the rest. After finishing up at UNM with the PhDizzle she owed more than our mortgage for her education. We were fortunate in that she was offered an academic job that affords us the ability to pay back her student loans.

      Had she gone to Harvard things would certainly have been different. She certainly would have had opportunities in the academy that are currently not open to her, but on the other hand she enjoys her job and the demographic of student that she is engaging.

      I'm happy with my education, but I sought out my professors, worked extremely hard, and made my own path through college. I feel like the larger the institution the easier it can be to fall through the cracks in the system.

      This part of my response treads pretty closely to the forbidden zone, but I can't not mention it. The funding situation at most state schools is pretty dire. Students are paying more in tuition and receiving less contact than they ever have before. Student services fees have skyrocketed in an attempt to make campus a hip place to hang out (ie climbing walls, gourmet burger stands, tv and video game lounges, rock concerts etc etc etc). These things aren't inherently bad, but as the funding shifts from paying academics (particularly in the humanities and arts who do not have the same opportunities to self fund through research grants) to paying for student services and athletics we see a decline in the overall quality of the education. One other aspect of this is that most state schools are mandated to grow by the legislature. For instance, Dr. Chop's podunk school needs to grow by 4 percent next year to maintain it's current level of funding. So, if they grow by 3 percent they'll have to offer the same quality education to a larger student population with a smaller budget. Saying that the system is broken could be the understatement of the century.

      Private schools offer an excellent education, and often aren't constrained by state curriculum requirements and funding issues. The experience, I would assume, is completely different.

  3. paging meat! are you still in the country? I'm looking for a recipe for New Mexican green chile (stew), preferably a vegan one. Help, please!

          1. My oldest daughter went vegan halfway through her senior year in high school. That lasted all of two days.

            Once you go meat, you never retreat.

            1. i was a vegetarian for about a year and a half in my younger days. after reflecting upon my reasons for being one, i realized i didn't really have any strong, compelling ones, so it got left by the wayside.

            2. the girl has been on an "ethical vegan" (or something like that) kick for a good six months now. She had a vegetarian spell, then reverted to "normalcy" for a year or so, then this.

              Sadly, I think this one is for a longish haul. She really loved dairy, but has found that almond milk is a tasty (and possibly healthier, albeit more than twice the price) alternative to cow's milk, that sorbets are good alternatives to ice cream, and that she can get by without butter just fine. Cheese is a problem; she won't eat soy cheese or rice-based chez, holding out for some cr@p she found at Whole Paycheck made from tapioca. And the Mrs. has found some vegan recipes for cookies and cakes that are edible.

              I don't personally get the stringent ethical claims she wants to hold, although I am sympathetic to some arguments against Big Agriculture as practiced in the U.S. today. But one can find all sorts of premium animal products derived from "ethically" raised/cared for animals. She doesn't want to go there, so I've left my head in the sand.

              1. I have learned that there is absolutely no reason to ever engage a vegetarian or vegan in a conversation about meat, because soon enough you're going to be lectured, and any facts that you've heard are lies.

                Granted, we have at least one regular here who's a vegetarian, and he never gets on a pulpit about it. I have not seen enough of that, though.

                1. Well, most of them are doing it to make a statement, so they're going to make sure they make their statement every chance they get.

                2. i believe i've mentioned my stance on vegans here.

                  once quick aside: vegan "foods" are some of the most heavily processed foods on the planet.

                  1. not really. Processed vegan "foods" are.

                    I make vegan dishes almost every night, out of real food. Olive oil, onions, garlic, ginger, spices, vegetables, legumes. There is a world of very tasty real food that qualifies as vegan.

                    Now, if we are talking about packaged cr@p, well, it is cr@p whether it is vegan or not. It just so happens that some cr@p tastes really good (mmm, Doritos!) for a while.

                    Anyone who is actually serious about the lifestyle choice had better learn how to cook real food.

              2. Re: almond milk. Started this out a while back and have stuck to it. Good with the Muesli.

  4. I might like this Cristian Ponder guy (twitter)

    StribDW
    Ponder said his six-shooter celebration after his first pass Sunday was partly a tribute to Shooter McGavin.

        1. Game 7 on Friday evening? I don't think so. It would lose out to h.s. football across the country, but particularly in Tejas.

          1. Maybe, maybe not. In God's Country, the playoffs are going on and these games are being played on Saturday*.

            *I realize that this may not be the same everywhere in the country.

              1. SBGville-NewBohemia is the defending 9-man champion in ND and won their opening round playoff game last weekend. After starting the season 8-0 and ranked #1 in the state this year, they lost the last game of the regular season to fall into second place in their region. I don't know where this weekend's game is, but they are playing a team that is located > 200 miles away. The game may be at a neutral site.

                1. Gettysburg-Hoven won its first round playoff game last night. The other school in my parish, Sully Buttes, lost in the first round after its star player was injured.

    2. It's not Rained Out, it's Threatening to Rain'd Out. trace rainfall so far, and it doesn't look like much coming to me.

      After having beautiful weather up until yesterday, now today it's turning chilly again. Just in time for some baseball. Good thing the game wasn't here yesterday, what with the winds we were having.

    3. The postponement means that if the Cards win tomorrow, Carpenter could try to gut it out and start Game 7 on 3 days rest, depriving Lohse at his shot to win Game 7 of a World Series.

  8. I couldn't agree more with this. Plus, there's a fun pot shot at Punto:

    It's ridiculous. As ESPN analyst and former outfielder Chris Singleton says, from the moment the gates open, fans beg the players to give them a baseball. Many fight for batting practice balls in the stands. They push and shove and crowd and scrap and claw and bite and generally embarrass themselves for a mere foul ball from the likes of Nick Punto. And then someone like Pujols hits a home run and they throw it back? That's insane.

    I was two rows too high in LF GA (back when it was still GA) to grab a Lew Ford HR one time.

    1. I once had to make a decision to either grab the Raul Mondesi home run ball that was about to hit me, or hold fast to my beer. I believe the Citizenry can guess what decision I made.

    4. I held one of this year's WS balls just this evening; the local card shop owner's brother is the guy sitting on the chair near on the field near the dugout, whatever his job is called.

  10. Don't know how long I'll have an internet connection, but I want to let you all know that I was approved for ordination. If you're going to be in Sioux Falls next June, you're welcome to come attend the ceremony. Thanks for all your prayers and thoughts.

    2. Way to go, Jeff! Sioux Falls? Let me know where. I'd like to meet the people from the community in person, and I think that's about as local as most of you are going to get to my corner of the country.

  11. Now it can be revealed:

    "Blame me," Spielberg said. "Don't blame George. That was my silly idea. People stopped saying 'jump the shark.' They now say, 'nuked the fridge.' I'm proud of that. I'm glad I was able to bring that into popular culture."

      1. The fridge bothered me, but I'll bet you anything Lucas came up with the swinging with monkeys on vines scene. If that scene were edited out and nothing put in its place, the movie improves.

        1. That's what I found funny about "nuking the fridge." It's just one stupid thing in a series full of incredibly stupid things that we're asked to believe, and I'm not even sure it's the stupidest.

          I'll never argue that it wasn't stupid. It's just surrounded by a sea of stupid, so who cares?

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