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Algonad
Philosopher
77 thoughts on “2020 WGOM Draft: Round 6”
If you're not updating your roster on the spreadsheet, please denote the position you're initially thinking for your draft pick so I can update it. Thank you
Really torn between a couple of players, a shortstop to fill out my infield and the last really great outfielder. But, as the Twins keep trying to prove, you can put anyone in the outfield.
He is the highest rated shortstop left on the board (I don't know George Davis and not sure I trust the numbers from the 1890's) I spent the entire decade of the '80's living in Wisconsin and came to appreciate him.
I spent a while looking at Yount, who I never really knew much about. Pretty darn impressive.
Three-time MVP, referenced in "We Didn't Start the Fire," and all-time great at his position whose career was sadly cut short.
From his SABR bio:
Early in the season, Nashua manager Walter Alston, who doubled as the club’s first baseman, asked [this pick] to take over the team for him if he ever got tossed out of a game. His reasoning was that [this pick] was older than most of the players and they respected and liked him. Sure enough, in a June contest Alston was ejected in the sixth inning and [this pick] became the first black man to manage in Organized Baseball. Moreover, his strategic move resulted in a comeback victory when he called on the hard-hitting Newcombe to pinch-hit and was rewarded with a clutch home run.
I had never heard that story before.
Neither had I. Awesome.
He was on my short list when I took Ott
Also, of note his career was cut short on both ends
Yup, International League MVP in 1947 as a 26-year old because his team was only willing to promote Jackie Robinson that year. MVP of the Negro League All-Star Game in 1941 as a teenager. Jumped to the Mexican League for a couple of years in a pay dispute. Even after his International League MVP season, Branch Rickey wanted him to play 1948 with the St. Paul Saints. While there, he hit 325/432/715 in 35 games (with 13 homers and 39 RBIs), and Rickey couldn't help but promote him by July. When he caught Don Newcombe the following year, it was the first black battery in MLB history.
He apparently was also willing to play through injuries even when they affected his performance. In Spring Training 1954, he broke his left wrist. He played through it for a month before finally having surgery. Surgery was expected to keep him sidelined for ten weeks, but he returned in just four. Similarly, in 1952 he broke a bone in his left elbow on a foul ball and played through it for ten more days before finally getting a cast.
When trying to think of someone to take on this important day my mind drifted to a client I saw last week. She's POC and Native, currently staying in an apartment with her daughter and their kids (against the terms of the lease, but it's frickin' freezing out there). I helped her look for housing among the slim picking of slum lords and found one potential place that doesn't exploit our clients by charging $50 application fees then turning them down for things they were already told about in the interview. I hope it works out. She has a hard time finding a place because of her low credit score, which is tough to build because nobody believes that she can do better. She won't get rented to. She can't get credit cards. And the system keeps her down based on this (not to mention her daughter who could ruin her rental history by allowing her mom to stay there when it's below zero). I believe she can do better. I believe her.
My pick we don't have any reliable stats for. He says he wasn't as good as people say he was, but he never got the chance to prove it. He couldn't graduate high school because his town didn't have one for black folks. Society didn't believe in him. But his fans called him the "black Lou Gehrig." I believe them.
Have you read Beyond the Shadow of the Senators by Brad Snyder? It's very good and is focused on Leonard more than any of the other players discussed.
I have not
My copy seems to have gone missing, otherwise I would have sent it to you.
(Just looking at my baseball shelf behind me, it's littered with books about our picks. I can see Clemente by David Maraniss, Now Pitching: Bob Feller by Bob Feller with Bill Gilbert, Sandy: A Lefty's Legacy by Jane Leavy, Miracle Man by Nolan Ryan, Hammerin' Hank of the Braves by Joel Cohen, and Opening Day by Jonathan Eig from where I'm sitting.
My pick played from age 22 to age 48. Bill James ranked him as the 27th greatest player of all time. Regarded as a "scientific" hitter, he lead his league in hitting at 44. He's considered the greatest infielder in league history. He was a respected manager, formidable on the field, but kind and reserved off it. After he retired, he became a school janitor.
Fellow Negro Leaguer and future Hall of Famer Judy Johnson told the story of Connie Mack recounting to him that Lloyd and Honus Wagner were on par as shortstops. “He said the two best shortstops he had ever seen were Honus Wagner and John Henry Lloyd. He said you could put them in a bag and shake them up and either one you’d pull out, you wouldn’t go wrong.” Aware of the comparison being made, Honus Wagner said, “I am honored to have John Lloyd called the black Wagner. It is a privilege to be compared to him.”
___
[Monte] Irvin recounts the story that “during a radio interview with the great broadcaster Graham McNamee, Babe Ruth was asked who he believed was the greatest player of all time. ‘You mean major leagues? Babe asked. ‘No’, said McNamee, ‘the greatest player anywhere.’ ‘In that case,’ Ruth replied, ‘I’d pick John Henry Lloyd.’”
___
Whitey Gruhler, long time sportswriter for The Atlantic City Press, gets the last word. In Only the Ball was White, Robert Peterson quotes Gruhler:
The youngsters cluster about him between sessions [at school where Lloyd was a custodian]. They call him “Pop” and love to listen while he spins baseball yarns of the past. Sometimes they refuse to break away from him and “Pop” has to pick them up bodily and carry them into their classrooms. He is their hero, this big, soft-hearted, soft-spoken, congenial man with a tired look into his eyes, but the bubbling spirit of youth in his heart.”
Dammit, I really thought I was going to be able to sneak him through.
ARGH. Yeah, this was my next pick.
Well, since it is increasingly obvious that I can't have the level of offense claimed by some of y'all, I will just have to settle for striking everyone out.
His WAR7 ranks only 34th all-time, in significant part because he lost his age-23, -24, -25 and almost all of -26 seasons to war service. At age-22, he earned a mere 8.2 rWAR, DOWN from consecutive 9+ seasons at 20 and 21. His first full season back, he earned 10.0. Ted Williams called him the best pitcher he ever saw. Stan Musial said he was the best pitcher of the era. I say he's my number 3 starter. Good luck.
He was on my short list of pitchers. My brush with Bob Feller Fame - we passed him on I-80 driving through Iowa once while heading back to Minnesota. The Bob Feller Hometown Museum is in Van Meter, IA. We've passed by dozens of times but have never stopped, always in to much of a hurry to get where we're going or get home.
I met him and Buck O'Neill at the Bob Feller Museum when Buck was their for a autograph session.
Oh wow, super jealous. Have you read I Was Right on Time or The Soul of Baseball?
I read the JoePos book. I also met Buck once at the old Rosenblatt Stadium in Omaha, it was Buck O'Neill bobble head night and he was at a table handing them out and signing autographs.
Both, actually.
Buck was super cool. Bob was a bit crusty old man.
Got Dad Buck's autograph for his birthday taht day.
I feel like my outfield has this.
Dang it, this was my guy- two picks off! Good choice.
At the beginning of this draft, I would never have figured that this guy would be my ace. That being said, I feel like I underrated him by mentally labelling him a "compiler". Eighth all the in fWAR (which, yes, compiled), but his lifetime adjusted FIP is better than Carlton, and his peak isn't bad, either (that stretch from 1969 to 1974 looks nice).
Maybe I'm just talking myself into it after missing the it on guys like Wheeler and Ryu, err... Blyleven and Kershaw, but I think I'm alright with this.
But, is the spitter going to be legal in our league?
My man Gaylord Perry is going to take his chances.
I’ll argue for a rule permitting pitchers to throw them if they were active when spitters were legal pitches.
"Great-Great-Grandfathered in"
Like it would even matter one way or another to Gaylord whether it was legal.
So, I wanted a pitcher, but then I noticed this guy was available. I do like the contact hitters with speed, I notice that every year on my fantasy baseball team as well.
Reading through the Wiki on him, I can't believe how much criticism he received while he was playing. Reminds me of how Joe Mauer was often treated, but with racism added in. Great character, great story, pretty darn good basketball player, too.
I rooted hard for the ‘98 Padres in the World Series. There were a lot of guys I liked on that team: Gwynn, Steve Finley, Ken Caminiti (I wasn’t aware of his troubles), Trevor Hoffman. By then he was working to overcome physical limitations; if he hadn’t possessed elite pitch recognition skills, hand-eye coordination, and consistency, he would’ve been finished. It’s a shame Captain Video never won a championship, but his untimely death is even more of a shame.
With this pick, my infield is basically complete. Anyone can play first, including this pick, but I'd prefer his shortstop years. Two Eddies in this infield, so now to figure out if I can get another Ernie.
I was researching three pitchers but when I saw that he is the only pitcher in major league history to defeat the Braves franchise in all three cities that the team has been based in, Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta, I knew I had my pick.
Dang, there goes another arm off my short list.
You'll have to go to your tall list then. I'm sure Neck Tat is still available.
He didn't play CF in MLB but he was considered a brilliant CFer in the Negro Leagues during his prime. He declined being the first player to break the color barrier and Joe Posnanski convinced me of his greatness. He supposedly told a young Willie Mays , "You remind me of me." (BTW, if you don't have an Athletic subscription, Posnanski's series on the 100 greatest players of all time is worth the cost by itself).
Absolutely. His Irvin write-up the other day was stupendous. It's a fantastic series.
My roster is full of mashers, but not much up the middle defense. I considered another center fielder, and some short stops and a third baseman, but went this way instead.
I’ve always had an affinity for the Dodgers (mostly based on liking the look of their hats when I was 10). In his age 25-30 seasons, he post WAR’s of 4.6, 9.3, 8.3, 8.6, 7.6, 5.0, and then fell off a cliff when he moved to Los Angeles. He’s all peak without much compiling, but that peak’s pretty darn good.
According to his SABR bio, he refused to sign a petition circulated by his Dodger teammates against Jackie Robinson in 1947, when both he & Jackie were rookies. Snider was only 20 at the time. Good on him.
In his lone season playing for the (American Association) St. Paul Saints, he hit .316/.352./.584 in 287 PA. He had been demoted from the Dodgers in mid-1947. At the time, the Dodgers had two AAA teams — the other was in Montreal, where he hit .327/.403/.644 in 310 PA In 1948. After that, he was in the majors for good.
It’s too bad his knees gave out on him after the team moved to LA, since that was his home turf. I didn’t realize he lived in Fallbrook — I wonder if I could’ve looked him up back when I lived in the neighborhood.
I didn't want to pick this guy but I need a shortstop. There are a couple that are rated higher but I want a guy I've been able to watch myself.
World champion
Multiple all star game appearances
Multiple silver slugger awards
Multiple gold gloves
20 years with one team
Number is retired by his former team
Currently working in the front office of a MLB team
Hall of Fame (but not unanimous)
Algonad
JANUARY 20, 2020 AT 12:19 PM
It's tougher to be active when you don't feel like you fit on either "team."
Are we talking rib eating contest, or 5K?
It depends on the group I'm in at the time!
Wgom bucks are flying outa here
You forgot
*Played the game the right way
*Inspiration to young players
I didn't want to pick this guy but I need a shortstop. There are a couple that are rated higher but I want a guy I've been able to watch myself.
World champion
Multiple all star game appearances
Multiple silver slugger awards
Multiple gold gloves 20 19 years with one team
Number is retired by his former team
...
Hall of Fame (but not unanimous)
I figured I should take him now, since there was no way he'd be around by the time it got back to me after another 107 picks, or whatever it is. I had really been hoping for Ernie Banks, but the more I looked at Larkin, the more I liked him. He was basically Joe Mauer in so many ways. Hometown kid, super consistent. Always a star but because he played for a small market team he never got the full recognition. I'm plenty happy to have him, and he was an asset defensively too,
I considered both Trammell and Larkin before selecting Banks. I opted for the high peak instead of longevity.
Plus, Mr. Cub gains an automatic +10 Constitution and +10 Charisma in doubleheaders.
There is the ex-Cub Factor, though...
Did Mr. Cub divorce the team?
Depends on if Phil calls his team the Cubs or not. I'm guessing not.
I had been considering Banks with my last pick.
You get the first pick in the next round, so you basically get 2 picks in a row.
I am aware.
You can create a new thread if you want. I'm swamped at work
If you're not updating your roster on the spreadsheet, please denote the position you're initially thinking for your draft pick so I can update it. Thank you
Really torn between a couple of players, a shortstop to fill out my infield and the last really great outfielder. But, as the Twins keep trying to prove, you can put anyone in the outfield.
He is the highest rated shortstop left on the board (I don't know George Davis and not sure I trust the numbers from the 1890's) I spent the entire decade of the '80's living in Wisconsin and came to appreciate him.
I spent a while looking at Yount, who I never really knew much about. Pretty darn impressive.
Nice job proving that point
MVP as shortstop and centerfielder!
My point exactly! Anyone can play the outfield.
Solid pick!
Dang it. He was my guy this round.
Hey, wait a minute -- that's my Killebrew card!
NoooooOOOOOOOOOOOO!
So close!
I need some pitching and I figure, why not go with the ol' knuckleballer,
Shoot, didn’t figure he’d drop down to me but was hopeful.
That’s a fun pick. Hard not to like a guy who throws a knuckleball.
I also enjoy the extreme dichotomy between the two pitchers i currently have.
Three-time MVP, referenced in "We Didn't Start the Fire," and all-time great at his position whose career was sadly cut short.
From his SABR bio:
I had never heard that story before.
Neither had I. Awesome.
He was on my short list when I took Ott
Also, of note his career was cut short on both ends
Yup, International League MVP in 1947 as a 26-year old because his team was only willing to promote Jackie Robinson that year. MVP of the Negro League All-Star Game in 1941 as a teenager. Jumped to the Mexican League for a couple of years in a pay dispute. Even after his International League MVP season, Branch Rickey wanted him to play 1948 with the St. Paul Saints. While there, he hit 325/432/715 in 35 games (with 13 homers and 39 RBIs), and Rickey couldn't help but promote him by July. When he caught Don Newcombe the following year, it was the first black battery in MLB history.
He apparently was also willing to play through injuries even when they affected his performance. In Spring Training 1954, he broke his left wrist. He played through it for a month before finally having surgery. Surgery was expected to keep him sidelined for ten weeks, but he returned in just four. Similarly, in 1952 he broke a bone in his left elbow on a foul ball and played through it for ten more days before finally getting a cast.
When trying to think of someone to take on this important day my mind drifted to a client I saw last week. She's POC and Native, currently staying in an apartment with her daughter and their kids (against the terms of the lease, but it's frickin' freezing out there). I helped her look for housing among the slim picking of slum lords and found one potential place that doesn't exploit our clients by charging $50 application fees then turning them down for things they were already told about in the interview. I hope it works out. She has a hard time finding a place because of her low credit score, which is tough to build because nobody believes that she can do better. She won't get rented to. She can't get credit cards. And the system keeps her down based on this (not to mention her daughter who could ruin her rental history by allowing her mom to stay there when it's below zero). I believe she can do better. I believe her.
My pick we don't have any reliable stats for. He says he wasn't as good as people say he was, but he never got the chance to prove it. He couldn't graduate high school because his town didn't have one for black folks. Society didn't believe in him. But his fans called him the "black Lou Gehrig." I believe them.
Have you read Beyond the Shadow of the Senators by Brad Snyder? It's very good and is focused on Leonard more than any of the other players discussed.
I have not
My copy seems to have gone missing, otherwise I would have sent it to you.
(Just looking at my baseball shelf behind me, it's littered with books about our picks. I can see Clemente by David Maraniss, Now Pitching: Bob Feller by Bob Feller with Bill Gilbert, Sandy: A Lefty's Legacy by Jane Leavy, Miracle Man by Nolan Ryan, Hammerin' Hank of the Braves by Joel Cohen, and Opening Day by Jonathan Eig from where I'm sitting.
My pick played from age 22 to age 48. Bill James ranked him as the 27th greatest player of all time. Regarded as a "scientific" hitter, he lead his league in hitting at 44. He's considered the greatest infielder in league history. He was a respected manager, formidable on the field, but kind and reserved off it. After he retired, he became a school janitor.
Dammit, I really thought I was going to be able to sneak him through.
ARGH. Yeah, this was my next pick.
Well, since it is increasingly obvious that I can't have the level of offense claimed by some of y'all, I will just have to settle for striking everyone out.
His WAR7 ranks only 34th all-time, in significant part because he lost his age-23, -24, -25 and almost all of -26 seasons to war service. At age-22, he earned a mere 8.2 rWAR, DOWN from consecutive 9+ seasons at 20 and 21. His first full season back, he earned 10.0. Ted Williams called him the best pitcher he ever saw. Stan Musial said he was the best pitcher of the era. I say he's my number 3 starter. Good luck.
He was on my short list of pitchers. My brush with Bob Feller Fame - we passed him on I-80 driving through Iowa once while heading back to Minnesota. The Bob Feller Hometown Museum is in Van Meter, IA. We've passed by dozens of times but have never stopped, always in to much of a hurry to get where we're going or get home.
I met him and Buck O'Neill at the Bob Feller Museum when Buck was their for a autograph session.
Oh wow, super jealous. Have you read I Was Right on Time or The Soul of Baseball?
I read the JoePos book. I also met Buck once at the old Rosenblatt Stadium in Omaha, it was Buck O'Neill bobble head night and he was at a table handing them out and signing autographs.
Both, actually.
Buck was super cool. Bob was a bit crusty old man.
Got Dad Buck's autograph for his birthday taht day.
I feel like my outfield has this.
Dang it, this was my guy- two picks off! Good choice.
So, I need a pitcher...
At the beginning of this draft, I would never have figured that this guy would be my ace. That being said, I feel like I underrated him by mentally labelling him a "compiler". Eighth all the in fWAR (which, yes, compiled), but his lifetime adjusted FIP is better than Carlton, and his peak isn't bad, either (that stretch from 1969 to 1974 looks nice).
Maybe I'm just talking myself into it after missing the it on guys like
Wheeler and Ryu, err... Blyleven and Kershaw, but I think I'm alright with this.But, is the spitter going to be legal in our league?
My man Gaylord Perry is going to take his chances.
I’ll argue for a rule permitting pitchers to throw them if they were active when spitters were legal pitches.
"Great-Great-Grandfathered in"
Like it would even matter one way or another to Gaylord whether it was legal.
This.
The final legal user of the pitch retired four years before Perry's birth.
So, I wanted a pitcher, but then I noticed this guy was available. I do like the contact hitters with speed, I notice that every year on my fantasy baseball team as well.
Reading through the Wiki on him, I can't believe how much criticism he received while he was playing. Reminds me of how Joe Mauer was often treated, but with racism added in. Great character, great story, pretty darn good basketball player, too.
I rooted hard for the ‘98 Padres in the World Series. There were a lot of guys I liked on that team: Gwynn, Steve Finley, Ken Caminiti (I wasn’t aware of his troubles), Trevor Hoffman. By then he was working to overcome physical limitations; if he hadn’t possessed elite pitch recognition skills, hand-eye coordination, and consistency, he would’ve been finished. It’s a shame Captain Video never won a championship, but his untimely death is even more of a shame.
With this pick, my infield is basically complete. Anyone can play first, including this pick, but I'd prefer his shortstop years. Two Eddies in this infield, so now to figure out if I can get another Ernie.
You could go with
There's still room on the bench.
I was researching three pitchers but when I saw that he is the only pitcher in major league history to defeat the Braves franchise in all three cities that the team has been based in, Boston, Milwaukee, and Atlanta, I knew I had my pick.
Dang, there goes another arm off my short list.
You'll have to go to your tall list then. I'm sure Neck Tat is still available.
Chris Short is still available.
He didn't play CF in MLB but he was considered a brilliant CFer in the Negro Leagues during his prime. He declined being the first player to break the color barrier and Joe Posnanski convinced me of his greatness. He supposedly told a young Willie Mays , "You remind me of me." (BTW, if you don't have an Athletic subscription, Posnanski's series on the 100 greatest players of all time is worth the cost by itself).
Absolutely. His Irvin write-up the other day was stupendous. It's a fantastic series.
My roster is full of mashers, but not much up the middle defense. I considered another center fielder, and some short stops and a third baseman, but went this way instead.
I’ve always had an affinity for the Dodgers (mostly based on liking the look of their hats when I was 10). In his age 25-30 seasons, he post WAR’s of 4.6, 9.3, 8.3, 8.6, 7.6, 5.0, and then fell off a cliff when he moved to Los Angeles. He’s all peak without much compiling, but that peak’s pretty darn good.
According to his SABR bio, he refused to sign a petition circulated by his Dodger teammates against Jackie Robinson in 1947, when both he & Jackie were rookies. Snider was only 20 at the time. Good on him.
In his lone season playing for the (American Association) St. Paul Saints, he hit .316/.352./.584 in 287 PA. He had been demoted from the Dodgers in mid-1947. At the time, the Dodgers had two AAA teams — the other was in Montreal, where he hit .327/.403/.644 in 310 PA In 1948. After that, he was in the majors for good.
It’s too bad his knees gave out on him after the team moved to LA, since that was his home turf. I didn’t realize he lived in Fallbrook — I wonder if I could’ve looked him up back when I lived in the neighborhood.
I didn't want to pick this guy but I need a shortstop. There are a couple that are rated higher but I want a guy I've been able to watch myself.
World champion
Multiple all star game appearances
Multiple silver slugger awards
Multiple gold gloves
20 years with one team
Number is retired by his former team
Currently working in the front office of a MLB team
Hall of Fame (but not unanimous)
RE3PECT.
You and Algonad can divide it up however you deem best
I think Algonad is better positioned for the $$, but for the sake of the team he'll just take a third.
Can algonad go to his left?
It makes him uncomfortable. Leave him be.
Are we talking rib eating contest, or 5K?
It depends on the group I'm in at the time!
Wgom bucks are flying outa here
You forgot
*Played the game the right way
*Inspiration to young players
I figured I should take him now, since there was no way he'd be around by the time it got back to me after another 107 picks, or whatever it is. I had really been hoping for Ernie Banks, but the more I looked at Larkin, the more I liked him. He was basically Joe Mauer in so many ways. Hometown kid, super consistent. Always a star but because he played for a small market team he never got the full recognition. I'm plenty happy to have him, and he was an asset defensively too,
I considered both Trammell and Larkin before selecting Banks. I opted for the high peak instead of longevity.
Plus, Mr. Cub gains an automatic +10 Constitution and +10 Charisma in doubleheaders.
There is the ex-Cub Factor, though...
Did Mr. Cub divorce the team?
Depends on if Phil calls his team the Cubs or not. I'm guessing not.
I had been considering Banks with my last pick.
You get the first pick in the next round, so you basically get 2 picks in a row.
I am aware.
You can create a new thread if you want. I'm swamped at work
Created.