31 thoughts on “Does Thome Make the Hall of Fame?”

1. I'm cynical, but I think he waits for two or three years. Same as Bagwell.

   1. Dude, you're rooting for the ChiSox - you think your opinion here matters now??

      😛

   2. I think he waits too, having spent a large part of his career DH'ing.

      1. Dido.
         Although, he's such a good guy, he might get a substantial sympathy vote from reporters.

2. Joe Pos:

   When he hit his 600th home run, someone sent me a Twitter question: "Is Thome a Hall of Famer?" I thought: Really? There's a question?

   1. It's not like hitting two more home runs suddenly makes him Hall worthy. I do think it will make him wait less.

3. There's no reason he should wait, but Harmon waited, so it wouldn't suprise me if it happened.

   1. If I remember from back then, the main issue the HOF voters had was Harmon's low BA. Back in those dark days, all they had was BA, HR, RBI, W, ERA, and Ks. LaRussa hadn't even invented the Save yet.

      1. That was a big issue, but they were coming up with all sorts of excuses, including failure to steal bases and a lack of sacrifice bunts (as if there were lots of situations in which you'd want Killebrew to bunt). When you reach your conclusion first, you can find all kinds of reasons to justify it.

         1. amen

   2. You're probably right, but hopefully no one uses that as the reason not to vote for Thome. That would be compounding one mistake with another, like not voting for Bert because he didn't receive enough votes for Cy Young awards in his career.

4. The argument against: not much black ink on his sheet. He only led his league in HRs once, never led his league in RBIs, only once in SLG, OPS, OPS+ (2002). Only one top-5 MVP finish (a 4th in 2003). Only 5 A-S selections (only 2 as starter). His 217/320/470 line in postseason play demonstrates a lack of clutchiness. He was a bad fielder. He wasn't regarded as the best player in the game at any point in his career.

   Those arguments will be made. The 5-year wait means that his personality will be less of a factor than it is now.

   1. The 5-year wait means that his personality will be less of a factor than it is now.

      Maybe, but I think personality had a lot to do with why Bert had to wait so long and Kirby didn't have to wait at all.

   2. Ugh, looking up Thome on baseball-reference earlier today caused me to look at his 2002 year and try to figure out how he finished 7th in the MVP voting that year. I had completely forgotten about Tejada winning that one and now I accidentally got reminded.

   3. I think with a lot of the black ink going to players with "enhanced stats" it will soften that stance.

      1. I think the "enhanced stats" issue may help Thome quite a bit. Assuming that, when he's eligible for the Hall, there continues to be not even a rumor that he took anything, his stature will be even greater.

5. Disclaimer: The following was posted as a comment on the JoeP story on Thome. I didn't have time to check the statistics, but if they're accurate, all the more compelling...

   I've always liked Thome, but until recently, I never realized just how good he is. He's been in the big leagues (full or part time) since 1991, with a career OPS+ of 147. General rule of thumb: 130+ is a season that deserves All-Star consideration, 150+ deserves MVP consideration, and Thome has almost averaged MVP consideration for his career. But he has never played for New York, or Boston, and only had 17 at bats for the Dodgers. It is telling that he has made the All-Star team only 5 times in his career, but has gotten MVP consideration 9 times. NINE! Heck, he had three straight years finishing in single digits for MVP (7, 7, and 4) but didn't make the All-Star team. He won a Silver Slugger but couldn't make the AST that season. Thome had three years with an OPS over 1, which is HOF first ballot good, but didn't make the AS team. The man was Mr. Cellophane.

   He had six total seasons with an OPS over 1 (and two more less than .005 away) and the first and last of those were 15 years apart. That is prodigious production without recognition. His best year he led the league in OPS, OPS+, slugging, walks, and finished 7th for MVP, despite an OPS at least 0.088 better than anybody else voted above him. The man never got credit for what he did.

   You want to know how good Jim Thome is? His career OPS+ of 147 is better than Alex Rodriguez, he has been doing it more seasons than ARod, and he did it without the taint of steroids.

   Thome deserves to be a first ballot HOFer. Will he be? It took Bert Blyleven almost too long to make the HOF, and I think he was a slightly clearer choice because Thome was neither fast nor a defensive plus. But they are remarkably similar: all time greatness ignored during their careers because they didn't play in New York.
   -Dinky

   1. I'm glad Dinky did the research, but it bums me out that he had to. Why is Thome such a secret?

      he did it without the taint of steroids.

      I wish this would go away. If Palmeiro and Ortiz taught us nothing else, they taught us that the absence of evidence isn't the evidence of absence. I hope Gentleman Jim is still squeaky-clean when the voting happens, because as underappreciated as he's been his whole life, he'll need to be.

      On the other hand, dodging the Hall with 600 homers? I don't think it's possible.

      1. Problem is, his greatness was spread over several teams, most of them in the oft-ignored AL Central. When you think of the Twins, you think Puck or Harmon, for example. When you think Indians, do you think Thome? Not really.

         1. I dunno. When I think of the Indians, I think of Feller, Nap Lajoie, Tris Speaker.

            But when I think of the "modern" Indians, I think of the mid-1990s teams with Thome, MannyBManny, Albert Belle, Baerga, Omar Vizquel, Sandy Alomar, Lofton, etc.

            1. That's my point. I didn't say "modern". And are any of those other modern Indians HOFers?

               1. depends on the attitudes about steroids when Manny becomes eligible.

                  Manny had 12 A-S game appearances, a higher career OPS+, BA, OBP and SLG, more hits, 2bs, total bases and RBI in 150 fewer games (so far), 43 percent more rWAR.

                  1. Manny had PEDs and was repeatedly called out for giving no effort. He might have a tough road, as amazing as he was.

                  2. and, to be fair, the reasons we think of Killebrew, etc. when we think "Twins" has just a little something to do with the change in franchise name from "Senators."* Otherwise, wouldn't we think "Walter Johnson" first?

                     *plus the fact that we grew up with Killebrew, Oliva, Blyleven, Carew, Kaat, etc., then got to enjoy two W.S. wins as young adults. The Indians haven't won a W.S. since 1948. But if we had grown up in Cleveland, I suspect that we'd have a much fonder and firmer recollection of those mid-90s Indians teams that went to the World Series twice in three years.

      2. On the other hand, dodging the Hall with 600 homers? I don't think it's possible.

         I guess we will find out in 2013, won't we?

         speaking of eligibility, good lord but the first-year eligibles list for 2012 is ugly.

         Edgardo Alfonzo, Pedro Astacio, David Bell, Jeromy Burnitz, Vinny Castilla, Scott Erickson, Carl Everett, Jeff Fassero, Alex S. Gonzalez, Danny Graves, Rick Helling, Dustin Hermanson, Jose Hernandez, Brian Jordan, Matt Lawton, Javy Lopez, Bill Mueller, Terry Mulholland, Jeff Nelson, Phil Nevin, Brad Radke, Joe Randa, Tim Salmon, Ruben Sierra, Jose Vizcaino, Bernie Williams, Eric Young

         Jack Morris might actually get close to election next year, despite having a career WAR less than Radke's, who threw almost 1400 fewer innings.

         1. It's the calm before the storm of 2013-2015.

   2. Better career OPS than A-Rod; better OBP than DiMaggio. Two mind blowing things I learned from the JoePos blog today.

   3. 10 seasons with OPS+ of 150 or better. Frank Thomas had 8. Jeff Bagwell had 6. MannyBManny had 10. A-Rod has had 7. Jeter has had one.

6. Sign Thome for 2012? Yea or nay? My head says no but my heart says yes.

   1. If he were to come back under the same contract terms as this year, I'd jump at it. $3M plus incentives. He's at 1.1 rWAR so far this year.

   2. *files away for future poll*

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