141 thoughts on “December 16, 2016: Airings of Grievances”

  1. I was 14 minutes late to check in online for my flight home from Omaha, and was chagrined to see I got C 6. The next day at the airport I showed the gate agent my account info on my Southwest app and pointed out the my flight to Omaha satisfied the requirements to become an A-lister, even though I hadn't officially gotten notification yet. He poo-pooed that and said I was official and allowed me to board after the A group was boarded.
    Don't you hate grievances that aren't grievances?

    1. That said, Mrs Runner lost her wedding ring. Again. It finally did turn up... in the first place I would have looked (and the first place she did look... not well enough). Runner daughter and I have rolled our eyes too many times over her.

      1. Mrs. A once lost her wedding ring for five years. She finally found it in a small paper bag in the trunk of our second car, just before we were going to take it to the dealer to trade it in.

        1. She was fiddling with the first wedding ring while sitting in a recliner, and dropped it into the chair. When I got home (from Omaha - yes, these things always happen when I'm away) I took the chair completely apart and carried the pieces to the trash, with no ring ever found.

        2. Philosofette once lost her ring while playing softball. We think. It might have been on the walk to the field, during the warm up, or the game itself. Seemed to slide off because of the glove. We never did find it.

        3. We'd been married about six months when my wife lost her wedding ring. After a few hours of searching I asked her to retrace her steps. Turns out that the ring got stuck to the bottom of a paper plate she was eating watermelon from and thrown in the trash. So I got to go dumpster diving to find our garbage bags and then sort through them. It was smelly and messy, but we finally found it.

          1. Jane once accidentally threw her keys into a dumpster along with the trash. Didn't have the benefit of a looking for a specific bag. I stood in that dumpster (in August) for over half an hour looking for those things.

          2. I was playing catch (football) with a friend on the beach in San Diego and managed to throw mine (left-handed throw) into the surf.
            Unfortunately, we never found it.
            Fortunately, my wife was there, so I didn't have to explain.

      2. I was visiting Wisconsin in January for my brother's wedding reception and I was sledding in the backyard with my nephew. I kept getting snow up my sleeves and removing my gloves to get it out. I finally realized that my wedding ring had slipped off at some point. My new sister-in-law promised to look for it with a metal detector in the spring, which she did. She said she liked having an excuse for renting a metal detector.

    2. My ring slides on and off very easily. And thus I'm paranoid I'm gonna lose it. So I takeit off for everything - doing dishes, showering, yard work, anything where I'm working with my hands.

      1. I think I mentioned here that I got a tungsten ring which proceeded to basically fall apart and even crack slightly (the jewelry store person asked if I worked with acid for a living). After that I found out that tungsten rings are basically $5, and hiked up by a factor of x20-30 by the jewelry stores. Now I have a few different rings. Jane doesn't care so much, just so long as I'm wearing something.

        1. I too was quite pleased to find that out. I bought a super cheap tungsten one online, but it was a bit loose and I kept feeling afraid it would fall off. So, for $10 more i ordered a smaller one.

        2. I don't see how concern about Getting it caught on things, scratching things with it, getting raw meat or cookie dough under it, etc. changes with age.

          1. Losing part of a finger when it gets caught on the top of a grain truck box when jumping down, or getting caught in a basketball net. I know both of those things have happened.

            1. the odds of getting it caught in a basketball net (installed on a hoop) DEFINITELY decline after age 30.

            1. Oh. Aging and weight-gain joke.
              I think EAR and I both weigh a bit less now than we did on our wedding.
              Birding (an impulse to go on long walks) really has helped me.

        1. Ditto. I don't want raw food juices underneath it so I stash it for a short while until that's all done.

      4. I once snagged my ring between two printing blankets and almost lost my finger. I don't wear a ring anymore. I've been thinking about tattooing one on, but since the brothers divorce announcement I've grown a bit more sheepish about that.

        1. My father rarely wore his ring because of his work as a 3M electrician (and later a hog-producer electrician). He said there was an electrocution risk. Rather than take it off all the time, he just never wore it.

        2. One of my tattoos is my wife's name. Guy in Panama offered some additional free ink after we'd knocked out what I came in for. I can't recall what prompted the choice ... youthful exuberance perhaps(?) but I've always thought that if worst came to worst, at least I could look myself in the mirror and be reminded of what mistakes not to repeat.

  2. Festivus is a week from today.

    I like how the Goofers are trying to come up with a creative way to never inflict LOLeidner on the world again. Methinks that complaining about due process when the players were allowed to play throughout the season while the investigation was ongoing shows a complete misunderstanding of due process.

    1. Things I don't like about Minnesota, in order:

      1. Gopher Football
      2. Brutal Winters

      It's not just that they've sucked on the field for most of the last 50 years, it's that they are complete embarrassment to our state. Shut it down.

      1. Rallying behind scumbags is just awful. I know kids are stupid but they are going to really regret this at some point.

            1. Yep, cheaptoy, those are the three words that have my head spinning. I've, for decades, enjoyed the incompetence on the field. But, I have come to really hate the program on a level that goes way beyond the on-field performance.

              And oh by the way, my club would absolutely beat them on the field again this year. But who cares. They are monsters.

              1. Not that I expected it, but it's almost like no one learned anything from the Penn St situation. This way over-inflated sense of their own importance and the idolization put on, especially, the football teams that let them have it is just disturbing.

                College sports really need to be separated from the college part.

                1. It is disappointing but not at all surprising to see program supporters come out and play the "these poor kids won't be able to play in the bowl game" card. FFS, sports aren't that important.

                2. Penn St.? How about much closer to home just last year with the basketball players and the sex tape on social media. Don't know the details here but sounds like this was worse and several key players for the basketball team were suspended for the remainder of the season and the primary player left the program all together. It sounds like there's a real problem with athlete misconduct throughout the whole program.

                  1. jeez. Didn't they learn anything from the Jim Dutcher-era case? Or has it been so long that there is no institutional memory.

                    I see that the Repository description of that event (in Dutcher's bio) is...umm, how to say it? Inadequate.

                    On January 25, 1986, three Gopher players were arrested on rape charges in Madison, Wisconsin. A Madison woman claimed the players raped her at their team hotel hours after the Gophers played the Wisconsin Badgers. After the arrests, U of M officials canceled the Gophers' next scheduled game, against Northwestern, citing the arrests and a series of less serious incidents prior to the arrests. Not agreeing with the University's decision to forfeit the game, Dutcher resigned as head coach. All three players were ultimately acquitted of all charges.

                    1. Maybe the Gophers can come up with 11 players willing to play in the Holiday Bowl and have an Iron Eleven game like the basketball team had an Iron Five game.

                    2. Just hold open tryouts. I'm sure there are plenty of frat boys who played high school football and would be willing to take a free trip to San Diego.

                    3. Maybe the University could demonstrate its zero tolerance for sexual misconduct and shut the program down for good.

          3. The Athletic Director should immediate relieve these people of their duties. If the AD is unwilling to do so, the university president should remove them and the AD.

            1. It's funny* because on the one hand, the President/AD are doing what appears to be the right thing - suspending players who engaged in behavior that was, if not criminal, simply unacceptable. On the other hand, so far, at least, they seem to be engaged in some level of negotiation with the team on this (at least from what I read).

              *Not the right word.

              1. If the the President & AD negotiate, they lose. If they don't negotiate, they lose. I'd rather keep my dignity (and my autonomy) and let Antoine Winfield send his kid to some other school.

                The nuclear option should be in play. The President should threaten to discontinue the program if the players & coaches continue to challenge the President's authority regarding the U's code of conduct. Especially when they do it in uniform, on University property, using University resources as their pulpit.

                2. Also, I'd love a clear statement from the AD/President:

                  "We want to be absolutely clear about what has happened here. A number of our football players engaged in horrifying conduct. There is no dispute regarding the actions they engaged in, nor that their victim was inebriated to the point where consent may or may not have been clear. Although no charges have been brought at this time, this type of behavior is obviously unacceptable. Without regard to the standards spelled out in criminal law, we as a University will not condone this type of behavior. We would also point out that it clear comes very close to the line established in the criminal code. For our purposes, near-rape will also get you disqualified from our program. We would also remind everyone that this arose in a context where multiple players engaged in this behavior with the same victim in a short period of time. Our message is clear: this is not acceptable, and we don't want our players thinking it is."

                  1. The school has a code of conduct that students have to agree to. You can look it up, but the short version is that it was definitely violated. Suspending or expelling students fits exactly with what happens when you break the rules.

                    1. Which is why the AD or President should present a public ultimatum to the players & coaches: the program will be discontinued if you continue to challenge (or publicly support a challenge to) the decision to suspend these players.

                      I'm fine with non-suspended players deciding they will not participate in the program following the suspensions of their teammates. In that case, if they would like to continue their studies as UofM students, they are free to relinquish any financial support contingent on their participation in college football. If the bowl game occurs after the grading period closes (which generally marks the official end of the semester) then they can submit their tuition payments for Spring 2017 to the Bursar's Office.

            2. Well the Pres is the person who hired Norwood Teague, so he allowed this culture to exist.

          4. I just can't get past this. Claeys has to fired, right? Not only is he supporting these players, he's also contradicting the President and Athletic Director - his bosses.

              1. Jerome Djam, the father of suspended player Carlton Djam, told ABC affiliate KSTP-TV that he was angry after learning of the school's decision.

                "I was extremely frustrated," he said. "This is like a double whammy here. I mean, he is an intelligent kid, 4.0 GPA. He's a talented kid. ... These kids cannot get their lives all messed up this early in their lives with all the talent they have."

                ABC story

                holy crap. Somebody apparently thinks that the Stanford Swimmer Defense is a good idea.

          5. It's really sad that this is occurring at a supposed institution of higher learning. It's clear that the players don't understand the difference between the standard of "beyond a reasonable doubt" that the law must reach while the U only needs probable cause to suspend and/or expel student athletes. At the very least, the coaches should be the ones explaining that to the players instead of patting them on the back for protesting a supposed "injustice."

      2. It gets worse: Underage Gophers football recruit also involved in alleged sexual misconduct.

        The players’ attorney, Hutton, attempted to argue that the woman was the one who raped the recruit, whose age makes him a juvenile under Minnesota statutory rape law.

        Hutton did not respond to a request for comment for this story.

        When asked about the recruit during the woman’s testimony, her attorney, Amy Isenor, instructed her client to plead the 5th, the constitutional right to decline to answer potentially incriminating questions.

        Judge Mel Dickstein initially allowed questions, but following continued objections by Isenor he retreated to his chambers to review the law. When he returned, Dickstein told Hutton he “understands that Mr. Hutton is trying to demonstrate that 609.344 has been violated.”

        That law makes it a crime if “the complainant is at least 16 but less than 18 years of age and the actor is more than 48 months older than the complainant and in a position of authority over the complainant.”

        “I don’t know how that’s relevant to the inquiry,” the judge told Hutton.

        Lee Hutton sounds like the kind of person who relishes acrimonious probate litigation.

    2. I have a daughter who will be attending college in less than 3 short years. She has considered the U of M due to her academic interests. This whole mess makes me even more nervous to see her fly the coop. I cannot understand how the coaches, parents and peer athletes involved are willing to stand by these guys. If I was the coach, I would not want any of these players back in my program. 10 guys and one drunk girl. Do you need any more facts than simply that!?!?!?! If I was an involved parent, I would blowing my son's world up, not attacking the administration. This is so absolutely horrendous, I just can't find the words. Fire these coaches and start over.

      My opinion, if I am the NCAA: Look in the mirror (leave your wallets in the other room). Does the current climate of NCAA football, basketball, hockey, etc truly reflect the core values of our institutions of higher learning? Psssttt... the answer is NO! Blow it all up. Cap coaches salaries. Require athletes to actually pursue an education in order to play college athletics. Let the professional leagues develop their own minor league system and let's get back to college athletics when it was true student athletes competing against each other.

      It's not just the Gophers. It's a huge issue in the majority of universities that "pride" themselves in the pursuit of big-time athletics. No school is immune, even NDSU... just wait, something will happen there too. With the state of youth athletics, many of these athletes are put in the spotlight waaaaay too early and are put on a pedestal where they feel they can do no wrong and are entitled to act however they wish. They are wooed by big name coaches who tell them how great they are. They are given a "tour" of the university, which usually involves current athletes showing them a good time and getting them some late night college action.

      Gradually, I have pulled myself away from watching college athletics over the years as it is just one big money game. This may be my final straw. Boycott?? The true boycott should be an ashamed public cancelling their season tickets, avoiding the B$G network, ESPN, etc.

        1. I'm not sure that we're all complicit, doc, as there is a significant portion of the population that has no taste what so ever for college athletics. I see the point you're making, but nothing will change because cash grab.

          1. Rape culture is a lot deeper and more pervasive than college athletics.

            I could have made that point clearer.

              1. If there were money to be made in sexually exploiting or demeaning women, I'm pretty sure they'd be doing it already.

                wait, what?

      2. Well said, my man. I've got a decade or so before post secondary decisions need to start being considered. I hope things drastically change by then.

      3. Depending on how this situation continues to play out, you might want to consider a letter to your state legislator & senator indicting your deep reservations about your daughter attending the UofM.

        1. I have a friend who is a regent at the U. Hoping to bump into him soon to let him know how I feel.

        2. I was talking to a senior state representative on Friday. He said that the University of Chicago dropped football, why can't we?

          I don't think the players fully appreciate how common this sentiment has become.

  3. So our family's probate nightmare is over. 11 months ago I asked here for a probate lawyer. My mother in law was named executor for her cousin's estate. Thank you DP and Algonad for your recommendations. We went with the latter, and he was great.

    A list of all the horrible things from the sister in law who had power of attorney:

    She intentionally did not let us know she was dying. We saw her once a month and it happened between visits. We found out four days after the fact.

    She was livid my MIL was named in the will and that she was specifically excluded. Her husband was still going to get hundreds of thousands of dollars. But she thought it was reprehensible my MIL was getting 10,000.

    She accused our family of manipulating the will and exploiting the deceased because her checkbook revealed she had taken us to dinner a couple times.

    She harassed MIL weekly with phone calls calling her character into question and accusing her of intentionally delaying the probate process. She then waited months to close out the bank accounts.

    She forced MIL to get bonded, and told the judge my MIL would run off with all the money.

    Final check payouts were sent two months ago. She was the last to sign, agreeing to terms. This week.

    Our lawyer called her the worst human he has ever had to deal with. And he used to be a defense attorney.

    1. Wow.

      I'd like to say that money turns people into monsters. But some people behave monstrously without that carrot, and carrots just exacerbate.

      Definitely an argument for careful estate planning, even if it cannot overcome these kinds of nightmares entirely.

      2. Emphasis on the careful. Estate planning rarely allows avoidance of probate. And sometimes wills can make things worse, depending on how the deceased has set things up... So thinking carefully about this stuff - including how you want the family to operate, and what you know their personalities to be - is huge.

        1. Yea, I didn't mean to imply that Beau's case was one of inadequate estate planning. Just that, you know, for the rest of us....

      3. After getting an estate planning gift certificate at a fundraiser in fall 2015, my wife and I finally took advantage of it and completed our will & health care directives in Oct. I feel much relief.

        When my MiL passed, she'd already put most everything in order (very specific directions for nearly everything tangible/personal) and my SiL was the executor of the intangibles. Knowing her [SiL] generally self-serving propensities - she would not have been our first choice. Going through the house room-by-room, we'd find neat little treasures and trinkets - sentimental valuables mostly. Then, she'd follow through a completed room and miraculously "find" little stashes of cash (MiL didn't really trusts banks or the gubmint). Considering she'd frequently been in the house alone in the weeks pre & post hospice and death and knowing how frugal my MiL was - the relative lack of money in her bank accounts and the amount of cash "found" compared to what could've been reasonably expected was ... suspicious.

        Everyone let that sleeping dog lie.

        1. I expect to get zero from my parents because I hope they plan to spend it all. I hope they do for their sake.

          1. My brother and I have been telling my parents for years to spend their damn money. They won't come close to doing so unless there are some ungodly medical expenses down the road.

            1. Ditto. My parents are in no danger of running out of money, but are convinced that they are, Dad especially. Maybe it's that Depression-era mentality, I don't know. My parents aren't rich, but they have more money saved up than I'm likely to ever have, and yet Dad doesn't want to renew his subscription to the local newspaper because it costs too much and (in his mind) they can't afford it.

              1. Depression-era mentality is a big part of it for my parents. My dad was all a-tizzy last year because he was running out of minutes on his pre-paid cellphone. Not because he was running out, but because he was running out before they returned to Minnesota for the spring/summer/fall seasons. If he had to buy more minutes, they would not be useful to him because they have a landline at home.

                also, over the summer he mailed to me several coupons they'd gotten in the mail from their grocery store out here, worried that they would go to waste.

                don't get me started on leftovers.

                1. speaking of Depression-era mentality. I told my dad to come over today (while I was at work) to pick a few oranges, as we have a freeze warning for tonight and tomorrow night. I wanted him to get a few oranges, with my wife's help.

                  He got out the wrong ladder (an extension ladder), leaned it against the tree, and proceeded to nearly kill himself AND my trees repeatedly in order to strip. every. last. orange. Can't have any go to waste, you know. Because a 30 cent orange is worth risking death or paralysis. Or breaking limbs on the tree.

                  1. Remind him that you could have gotten 30c each for those oranges, and you will have made his day.

          2. For sure. Better that than dealing with inheritance ... or conversely, me having to pay for them.

    3. Glad it ultimately worked out!

      Sheenie's grandparents' estate took 25 years in court to resolve.

        1. I don't know too many details because both died before I was in the picture, but apparently both wrote her uncle out of their wills, and he contested it fit that long. The estate involved small pieces of real property in several states.

          It finally resolved when the IRS intervened and told the uncle that they were taking anything he recovered. At that point, I guess he gave up.

  4. Since curling was mentioned yesterday, I should share that my initial curling season is coming to a close. We are 2-5 in the beginner league. In our first match, we lost 14-0. They used a sub that has been curling for 45 years. Beginner?

    Last week, we won 16-2. The past four weeks we are 2-2 with two 1-point losses. I think we'll be ready for the 2022 Olympics!

    1. Keep it up! I'm looking forward to getting the Poissionnier started with curling in a few years.

      1. Hey man, keep me posted. I can have an open lead spot on a Sunday night team for you should you choose to join the club. I'd be more than happy to take you under my wing and teach you all my bad habits. Also, if you do join, I have an extra broom I don't use anymore to help lessen the equipment purchasing impact.

        1. Awesome. I'll be a beginner – which, if memory serves, you were when the trinket started curling.

          Looking forward to sharing some evenings at the Madison club a few years down the road.

          1. The Sunday leagues are great for new curlers because the point limits are much lower. And yeah, the Madison club is an awesome place to hang out both for the good beer and the good company (and often the good bourbon/scotch people bring.)

              1. Ugh, those damn Steven's Point guys. Those were friends of yours if I remember correctly, right?

                They were fun, but man that Malört is just not something that is good.

                1. Yep, one of them is the younger brother of one of my very closest friends. Not sure I knew the others, but I'm guessing they hold up their end of the bottle.

      2. I do have one negative story.

        My teammate took his family curling during open ice time over Thanksgiving. Wife, 3 kids, MIL, and FIL. FIL has a bad fall and ends up in the hospital with 25 stitches.

        After the fall, a curling club member confronts my teammate because he felt the 9 year old wasn't treating the ice as carefully as he should have. The kid is a little bratty so probably had a point, but timing and tone couldn't have been worse. He grabbed my teammate by the arm and got in his face as his FIL is getting carted off the ice by paramedics.

        No punches thrown but I am guessing it was pretty close. My teammate explained to him he'd be eating through a straw if he kept it up.

        1. Oh man, that's super crappy. For the most part I've found that curling attracts a more polite group of people since the game is really entrenched in honor code type stuff, but you definitely get the dickwad every once in awhile. Those types of people make it harder to keep newer curlers interested (especially kids, which are pretty important to get interested for the longevity of the game and so we can start beating those damn Canadians) in addition to just being terrible people.

          1. which are pretty important to get interested for the longevity of the game and so we can start beating those damn Canadians

            Unpopular opinion: The US will win multiple curling gold medals at the Olympics before it ever plays a World Cup final in soccer.

            1. No question about that. The issues Team USA curling has are far easier to address than the ones USMNT has.

            2. Only 7 nations have played in a World Cup final in the last 38 years, so you're not going out on much of a limb.

    2. That's awesome. I don't know if you mentioned it previously and I missed it, but I didn't realize you had started. What club are you at?

      But yeah, in a beginner league, having someone skip that's got that much experience is pretty against the spirit of the game. If that was the only person they could find to sub they should have put them at lead or second. Here in Madison we've got a couple of leagues for new to new-ish curlers that are pretty great. One is an instructional league that is more skill development in the first half of the season (we run from beginning of November to end of March) where they basically just practice, then play actual games in the second. The other is a 5&under league where you have to be in your first five years of curling to be eligible (and which I won the inaugural season two years ago). Our club also rates everyone on a 1-20 scale with a lot of leagues having a total team point limit. It helps keep teams from getting loaded up and it forces teams to mix it up when they can't fit under the limit. Its a big help for our main men's league which consists of about 80 teams spread out over like six shifts, with the main benefit being that new curlers can have an easier time finding a team in that league.

      But yeah, the Thursday night team I play third on is currently 6-0 with three first half draws left, so we're sitting real good for an automatic entry into the playdowns by winning the first half. I skip a team on Sundays and we had a couple of bad games, but are looking ok to finish on top of our division if we win our next two games.

      Curling is the best.

      2. I'm at the Chaska club.

        In the sub's defense, he didn't skip and offered a lot of good instruction for us. We're just trying to learn but it sucks to get shut out.

        1. I assumed he skipped, but playing lower and offering instruction is a good way to do it.

          Also, a college buddy of mine curls there. You know a Shaun, by chance? He started last year, though I don't know if he kept it up this year or not.

    3. One of the first things I did was check if there's a curling club anywhere near us after we moved. Unfortunately, no such luck.

      1. A curling club at border of Hennepin/Wright counties would do very well. Kickstarter? You've got some ice experience, right?

            1. I can't remember the exact numbers, but Chaska exceeded their 5-year plan within the first year. It has been wildly successful.

              The Curling Club/Brewery combo would be awesome!

              1. That's great. It's been really fun to see there's sport grow over the years in places other than Wisconsin and Minnesota.

                Of course, I'm not sure the concept would work great down here since at the Madison club we get all the beer we can drink with our membership.

  5. Aquinas has a classmate's birthday party scheduled for this afternoon. They're in 1st grade. With the weather it is shaping up to be a possible sleepover. I think 1st grade is too young for that, and, via my profession, I have all sorts of paranoia about predatory behavior at children's sleepovers. We don't know the parents particularly well in this case, though we do know them somewhat. Seem nice enough, no reason to suspect anything. Party is 20 miles from where we live. At what point do I say "I'll risk the roads to go pick him up" if it becomes a sleepover or do I just trust that things will be alright? I haven't had the opportunity to speak to him about always having a buddy with him (except when using the restroom), etc. (Paranoia? Just smart?)... and I'm genuinely not sure how he'd feel about a sleepover anyway. I'll of course check with him, but I'd like to know what other parents 'round these parts would do/say? I'd also observe that he's still the new kid in school, and sometimes ends up playing by himself... helping him develop closer friendships - like at a birthday party - is a good thing.

    1. When I was about 16 I asked my dad why 90% of sleepovers I had were at our house. He said he didn't trust the other parents. He said that was also why he built a game room in our house, so that other kids would want to come over. I think you remember the pool table? Yeah, that was to avoid me going elsewhere.

      I had a sleepover at a friend's house at six. My dad knew the other parents pretty well, though.

      1. Aquinas' best friend in the class is "also unsure" about what to do at this point, and I've been communicating with his mother. We might end up trying to pick up the kids early if it comes to that.

    2. My 2 cents: My 1st grader has been begging to sleep over at a friend's house, but I don't think he's quite ready in terms of his level of independence (getting himself ready for bed) and his ability to comfortably fall asleep in a different place with other kids around. But I know Aquinas is nearly a year older than the jalapeño, even though they're in the same grade. That said, if you don't think you can take the chance you'll need to get in the car to pick up your kid at 10:30 because he can't fall asleep and wants Mom and Dad, I'd say don't try it just yet.

      As far as the safety issue goes, I hope you've had conversations about good touch/bad touch, etc. (which is certainly not a sleepover-specific thing). You can't control what happens to him especially as he gets farther into elementary school. But you can educate a kid about what's okay, what's not okay, and what to do if something ever happens that's not okay or makes him uncomfortable in any way.

      1. I would say that we have had some of those conversations, but probably not all. Also, I know my kid, and know he can stand to be reminded of things.

    3. two words: practice sleepovers. Negotiate a swap with best friend's parents (who you hopefully already know and trust) so that each gets a taste of what it's like to spend the night at someone else's home, and also to see if they are ready to handle a group sleepover anytime soon. Runner daughter's godparents and their two girls successfully did this with us and Runner daughter at a young age.

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