34 thoughts on “Top 300 Minnesota Twins of all time: Updated through 2021”

1. No one tell nibbish and DK that La Tortuga made the list...

   1. As a relief pitcher?

2. This year's newcomers are Josh Donaldson, Willians Astudillo, and Ryan Jeffers

   Am I reading this correctly that Rodney Dobnak also is a newcomer this year?

   1. Dobnak made the top300 last year, so he is not a newcomer this year. He actually slid back several spots and is barely hanging on to a top300 spot.

3. Hindsight is 20/20, but Graig Nettles at 299 really stings. Rich Reese never came remotely close to approximating his 1969 batting line. Meanwhile, Harmon was basically done as a third baseman after 1970, and Nettles immediately became a 5-win player in Cleveland. Between 1970–76 Nettles put up 40.6 rWAR, effectively splitting the difference between Tony O.’s & Hrbek’s career rWAR.

   Simply put, the Twins traded the wrong Nettles brother for El Tiante, then compounded the mistake by cutting bait on Tiant when he was coming back from his arm injury.

   1. Graig Nettles at 299 really stings

      I see what you did there.

      1. 

4. that fWAR/rWAR difference on Kaat...wow.

   What is driving that? By fWAR, he ranks second in Twins history (including Senators' time for players who made the move), but by rWAR, only 10th. Almost entirely because rWAR likes him so much less.

   1. If you would have asked me to guess, without looking, which system would like Kaat’s career more, I think I would have picked rWAR, not fWAR.

   2. Not knowing all the ingredients that make up the various WAR stews, I think Kaat's issue with b-ref is a high number of unearned runs he gave up. He had some fairly high rWAR numbers for example in Chicago after we traded him and his ERA+ and IP numbers were similar to Twins years with low rWAR numbers. The difference was he seemed to give up a lot of unearned runs a lot of his years in Minnesota and I believe rWAR does not differentiate between earned runs and unearned runs. Fangraphs calculation may not even look at runs at all right? They focus on K/BB/HR rate?

      Butheway, Kaat's Senator numbers (or Allison/Battey/Harmon/Zoilo/Green/Lemon/etc) are not included in my charts or rankings. I'm only looking at starts starting once the franchise moved to the Twin Cities in 1961.

      1. I find it a little ironic that arguably the best fielding pitcher had so many unearned runs

5. Falling out of the top300 this year are Mike Pelfrey, Tommy Millone, and David West.

   Something good to come out of 2021...

   1. World Series Champion* David West.

      * West’s 1991 World Series ERA: ∞

      1. When I started the list 15+ years ago, anyone with a pulse who even was remotely attached to the 87/91 champs was considered. Don Baylor was in the top300 for a while despite only 49 regular season at bats. As more new players improve the bottom of the list, just being the #4 starter on the 91 team (and winning a playoff game) aren't enough to hang around.

6. Tommy F. Herr still being on the list...that hurts, man.

7. Five players have played 12 or more seasons for the Twins. Four of them: Mauer, Puckett, Hrbek, and Oliva, played their entire career in Minnesota. The fifth, Kaat, played about half his career in Minnesota.

   1. Harmon Killebrew played fourteen seasons for the Twins (not counting his seasons for the Senators).

      1. The YRS column represents how many seasons the player was a "starter" for the Twins (IE started the most games at one of the 9 positions or was in the top5 in starts as a pitcher (or led the team in games finished). Harmon was a Twin for 14 years, but only "started" 9 of them. 1965 for example, he lost quite a bit of time to injury and didn't start the most games at either 1st or 3rd (although he was awesome when he played). SImilar in 1968/1971/1973/1974 (although in 1971 he played a lot, he just split between 1st and 3rd)

         1. I would say that if a player didn't start the majority of games at a single position but started a majority of games at any position, that should count (ie: Killebrew 1971). Seems off not counting a year where a player lead the league in RBI and BB.

            1. Harmon definitely deserved a "years started" for 1971. Cesar Tovar probably lost a season started or two as well (I do combine all OF positions and look at who started the most 3 games in OF which helps him a little). In the end, I obviously didn't punish Killer too much as he was still #1 on my list.

               In terms of actual "years" in Twins uniform, it goes

               TonyO/Mauer: 15
               Harmon/Hrbek; 14
               Kaat: 13
               Puckett/Carew/Radke/Hunter/Eddie/Bush: 12
               Morneau/Cuddyer/Aggie/Bert: 11

8. NTR, I’m wondering if team-conferred honors factor into your rankings at all. For example, there are over 20 player members of the Twins’ Hall of Fame*, but a much smaller set of those have their actual numbers retired. Blyleven is in both Cooperstown & the Twins’ Hall and the Twins eventually retired his number, while Kaat is only in the Twins’ HoF. Would the individual honor of the Twins’ decision to retire Bert’s number elevate him over Kaat, if that was one of your criteria? Or Cuddyer over Smalley?

   The Twins have distinctly set the threshold for number retirement somewhere between status as a Twins HoFer and induction into Cooperstown, with Hrbek being the clearest example of that standard, and Radke, Johan, Allison, or Kaat (pick your era & position) its flip side. (I think the team is slow-walking a decision on i-i, who is eligible for the first time in 2022. I may be wrong (I hope I am), given that they issued #48 to Alexander Colomé this past season.) It seems like there’s clearly some winnowing that happens along the way.

   * The Twins’ Hall of Fame needs a better shorthand name.

   1. I do not use the Twins HOF standards or Twins retired numbers as a guide to my rankings. However, until Bert was elected into Cooperstown, the top of my list matched the retired numbers (My original top5 was the 5 retired numbers. Mauer has since been added to both my top6 and retired numbers). I think Bert's number retirement was more about a celebration for him (and the organization since he was a prominent TV guy at the time) and less about him "deserving". He made the baseball HOF, but just looking at his Twins 11 year career it is not Cooperstown worthy (wheras Kirby, Puck, Carew were HOF-worthy with just their Twins time alone in my opinion. I go back and forth a lot between Kaat and Bert and who to rank higher. I think they are very close. Bert was clearly a better pitcher than Jim, but I like the longevity, defense, and hitting that Kaat brings to his Twins resume just a little bit more and I've never moved them from my original rankings.

      I actually don't think the Twins are close to retiring Hunter's number. I'm curious what you are seeing/hearing makes you think they would do that? Is it that he may get some Cooperstown buzz even though (like Bert) a lot of his resume was padded outside of a Twins uniform?

      As to the Twins HOF, the top of my list is close to who they've elected, but I clearly think they reached with Eddie and Gagne (34 and 35 on my list). Cuddyer is more defensible (I have him at 28) but nobody outside my top22 is currently in the Twins HOF. Hopefully Tovar is added soon (He's been deserving forever) and maybe Dozier is added in a few years. I have Polanco at 40, but he could be in Cuddyer territory at the end of his current contract. And fingers crossed they extend Buxton and we are talking about him as a Twins HOFer in a few years? We can only hope. We need some new blood to keep them from reaching again with guys like Gladden (who's finished 2nd in a lot of votes in the past)

      1. Thanks NTR for continuing to put this list together - very enjoyable and I agree about Tovar. Glad to see the fresh faces on the list as well.

      2. Gladden's last act as a Twin was scoring the winning run in the 1991 World Series. He was a laughable choice as a leadoff hitter, but he had a certain je ne sais quoi. I bet he eventually gets in.

         1. We should also see Replacement Player get in as well, since his results were even better than Dazzle's.

         2. Over his 5 seasons with the club, Gladden had an OPS+ of 98 and he averaged 1.1 rWAR (5.7 rWAR in 2,698 PA). He was pretty much the definition of "meh."

            1. Oh I know. 98 OPS+ from your left fielder isn't great.

               1. 98 OPS+ from your left fielder isn't great.

                  This is what is known as an understatement.

                  1. And you're overselling it. He actually only had a 90 OPS+ in his 5 years in Minnesota.

                     1. I stand corrected. Must have misread.

                        Oy. 5 seasons of 90 OPS+ from your LFer is...not good. By year: 76, 102, 103, 88, 80.

                        That first year, the glorious 1987, he played 105 games in LF. Bruno had 58 in LF and 107 in RF and Mark Davidson had 36 in LF, 20 in CF and 33 in RF.

                        Davidson: 267/321/327 and 71 OPS+. The other option was Billy Beane (267/267/400 in a cup of coffee). Unfortunately, there were no hidden gems lurking in the minors at that point. Both the AAA and the AA clubs were terrible and had no OFers worth promoting. (Gene Larkin spent 35 games in Portland and played in 85 with the Twins and had an 89 OPS+ as a spot starter and PHer; I guess he is the exception, but he had no appearances in the OF in 1987 with the Twins--DH and 1B only).

            2. over a similar span (6 seasons, 2,830 PA), Eddie Rosario had an OPS+ of 109 and 11.9 rWAR. Although 4.3 rWAR came in one season (2018, in large part because he was a +10 in Rfield).

         3. At this point, Gladden has been part of the radio broadcast for over 23 years, including 19 as an analyst. I think 2022 will mark the 15th season he’s been a sole partner of a traditional broadcaster (Gordo/Provus). I know he was part of the crew of guys who won in ‘87 & ‘91, but his eventual induction should be about the totality of his contribution to the franchise, rather than just his playing career.

            1. I guess I can live with Gladden being added more as a "Twins lifer" with 50/50 resume for his playing/announcing career. Then, it doesn't seem as big of a reach. Admittedly I have him ranked too high (in the top50) based on his pedestrian regular season stats with a lot of bonus points for his postseason heroics. Flags fly forever, and as we are now 30 years removed from our last championship (and almost 20 years removed from our last postseason series win) I have not softened on that, giving big boosts to Gladden, Morris, Chili, and even Mudcat based on their October heroics that led to championships (or in Mudcat's case, just on the cusp)

               As BrianS pointed out, Eddie Rosario was a far superior left fielder(offensively at least) in a similar amount of playing time and I have Eddie 2 spots behind Dazzle. If Eddie had channeled some of his heroics from earlier this month in 17/19/20 and was a postseason MVP for a series, he'd probably find himself up quite a few spots on my list.

      3. My sense with i-i is just a hunch. I don’t think the BBWAA is likely to vote him into Cooperstown, but he’s close enough that it’s not a foregone conclusion. While his peak spanned his time with the Twins and Angels, he spent 12 seasons in Minnesota, more than twice anywhere else. His rate stats were better in Anaheim, but he has a clear lead in both traditional counting stats and metrics like rWAR and fWAR (thanks to defensive value) during his Twins career, so he’s almost certain going to go in as a Twin if he is inducted. The twins have only issued #48 once since i-i retired, and Colomé was an eight year player who had worn that number with his two previous teams.

         Beyond that, the front office continues to list him as one of four Special Assistant(s) to Baseball Operations, so there’s some kind of ongoing player development or operations relationship there. There are other Special Assistants in the Administration portion of the FO’s directory: Bert, Carew, Hrbek, Morris, TK, & Tony O, so I don’t think i-i’s position is purely the function of him having a services clause in his last Twins contract. They want the guy around (for some reason).

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