WGOM Half-Baked Hall

WGOM Half-Baked Hall: 1903-1906

25 Comments

For the first time since the initial election, we will be looking at more than three years this go round, as the 1903-1905 classes were pretty weak. We have 16 players from the previous ballot and 16 new players.

Due Date: Monday, August 4.  I'll extend this if there's demand.

Players On Their Final Ballot

Candy Cummings
Dave Orr
Deacon White

New Pitchers

Red Donahue
Noodles Hahn
Brickyard Kennedy
Kid Nichols

New Batters

Dan Brouthers
Jesse Burkett
Ed Delahanty
Hugh Duffy
Herman Long
John McGraw
Jim O'Rourke
Jimmy Ryan
Kip Selbach
Chick Stahl
Sam Thompson
George Van Haltren

Previous Elections Results
Voting History
Player Spreadsheet

25 thoughts on “WGOM Half-Baked Hall: 1903-1906”

  2. New Pitchers:
    Kid Nichols is an obvious yes.

    New Batters:
    Jim O'Rourke should get in on his work with Sonic Youth and Wilco.
    John McGraw: are we counting coaching/managing?

    Can't say I know the other guys.

    I think it will be easier this time, because I can just copy votes from last time on players I voted yes/no on.

    1. Unless you change your mind 🙂

      If you want to include managerial, you're welcome. No rules. Spalding was partly inducted for his promotion of the game.

    1. I'll also add that Delahanty is the first player on the ballot who played for franchise that is currently the Minnesota Twins. Not that we're homers here.

  4. Why you should vote for Deacon White on his last ballot

    1. He played 20 seasons when most players flamed out (or died) around age 30. Living a clean life (no booze, cigarettes, gambling) may have helped that.
    2. He didn't just accumulate. His OPS+ was above 100 his first 18 seasons. It only dipped below 127 once in his first 11 seasons.
    3. He accumulated over 45 WAR despite not playing on any teams until he was 36 that had more than 100 games in a season
    4. He wasn't an elite defender, but he was above average. He was one of the best catchers when he was young, then when he got old he moved to third base and was above average there despite being way older than his contemporaries.
    5. He was very outspoken against the reserve clause despite his very calm demeanor otherwise.
    6. He admitted that he would have never been able to hit Lefty Grove.
    7. He was still going to baseball games when he was old enough to see Lefty Grove.

    1. I've already voted for him every time, so I'll just say "what beau said". Just living past 30 send Damn near enshrineable.

      1. I noticed O'Rourke had a similar career path. He just played one game in his 50's (the pennant clincher, no less) to wind up on this late ballot.

  5. For those who don't know (or didn't listen to the video above), Ed Delahanty was still playing marvelously at the age of 35 when he got drunk one night and took a train. He was kicked off the train for disorderly behavior. Then he got into a scuffle with a night watchman. Then he fell into the river. The watchman said he didn't know if Delahanty jumped or just stumbled over. Witness reports stated he was feeling pretty depressed that evening, and he had a life insurance policy taken out on himself only recently. It is unknown whether he died on impact or died going over the falls. Some believed he was possibly pushed off the bridge, though there's no evidence of that.

    He had four brothers, every single one of them playing in the majors, though only Jim was any good.

  6. Jesse Burkett was apparently a gentleman off the field, but a real jerk on the field. Hence, he was nicknamed "The Crab." Reporters often had to censor so much of what he said that it made his quotes virtually unintelligible. He'd probably make Jerry Burns blush:

    "Why you blank, blankety blank, do you know what I think of you? I think you are the blankest blank blank that ever came out of the blank blankest town in the blank blank land. You ought to be put in a museum."

    an incident when Burkett came into the game as a pinch-hitter and was asked by the umpire who he was batting for. Burkett responded, "None of your blankety blank business." The umpire, Red Rorty, then turned around and announced to the crowd, "Burkett batting for exercise."

  7. Bill James on Kid Nichols:

    I think Nichols suffers in history from the way that we simplify data

    For pitchers, we tend to simplify the data by ignoring the records of the 19th-century pitchers, which is largely appropriate, since they were playing a different game. But in the case of Kid Nichols, it probably isn't appropriate. Kid Nichols went to the Western Association in mid-career; he went 27-7 then 21-12 for Kansas City (Western), then returned to the National League to go 21-13 for St. Louis. This wasn't in the 19th century; that was in 1904. The 34-year-old Nichols was 21-13 with a bad team in the National League.

    James uses win-loss record to make the point that Nichols was effective in 1904. There are other numbers that make the case better, but the record was not a fluke. James also developed a formula to determine how much impact individual players had on their teams' pennant races. Nichols sits third all time on that list (as of 2001) behind just Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle.

    1. I'm always surprised when Mantle pops up on lists like that. I don't really know why. I just sort of overlook him, I guess.

  8. "Big Dan" Brouthers was huge for the time - listed at 6'2" 205 lbs. He was also a slugging machine. He led the NL in slugging pct. seven times, and finished in the top three in the category 10 times total.

    He also brought his Irish Setter "Kelly" to games with him. The dog would sit in the player's area. There were no reports of the dog interrupting the game and teammates had no problems because the dog was said to be very well behaved.

    1. Oh yeah, here's a list of players most similar Kent Hrbek by decade from Bill James:

      1880's - Dan Brouthers
      1890's - Harry Davis
      1900's - Tim Jordan
      1910's - Ed Konetchy
      1920's - Jacques Fournier
      1930's - Dolph Camilli
      1940's - Rudy York
      1950's - Gil Hodges or Eddie Robinson
      1960's - Boog Powell
      1970's - John Mayberry
      1980's - Kent Hrbek
      1990's - Mo Vaughn

    2. I think he should get voted in. And his plaque can say something like "We're kind of dog people."

  9. I'm not sold on Sam Thompson, but it is interesting that his great-grandfather fought in the Revolutionary War (under Col. William Washington) and his father fought in the Civil War.

    The others on the list who are very good and are helping me define my line between HBHOF and not HBHOF are Hugh Duffy and Jesse Burkett.

    1. Agreed. Thompson/Duffy/Burkett were the three I spent the most time debating about. I voted and I'm still not sure.

    1. Yes. This.

      The hangup for some is that the whole "invented the curveball" story seems apocryphal. To those, I would say "I would rather err on the side of cool, yet impossible to ever truly verify stories". You won't be able to prove that he didn't, and I'd rather not be skeptical about things inw hich skepticism does nothing but diminish the wonder of possibly apocryphal, but certainly enjoyable baseball lore.

      ymmv, of course

  11. In case anyone else hasn't voted yet, and is debating:

    Delahanty seems like a lock for me. He hit over .400 3 times, and has the 5th highest career batting average of all time. I'd say he probably holds up.
    Burkett would get in for me. I kind of like the "holds the record for most in the park HRs" thing.

  12. Was looking to make a decision on Hines and came across these comments - made me rethink my votes on both gentlemen. Thanks for the assist fellas!

    I really want to have guys called 'Noodles' and 'Brickyard' in, but couldn't really argue they'd done enough beyond the name.

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