We're at about 106 degrees or so after weeks of easy 80 degree weather. I'm melting.
183 thoughts on “June 1, 2015: No Warning”
Who do we blame for this Twins start? I blame Molitar.
Thick smoke and stylish mirrors. I don't care, I'm along for the ride anyway.
And on cue, Christina Kahrl has analysis on the Twins today. I've been reading her for about a decade and I can tell you, that she's not been afraid to rip the Twins, even during good times. With that knowledge as a backdrop, this is borderline high praise.
But still no love for Joe and his .420 RISP BA
what the hell is happening with Joe? The article points out that the Twins have faced a ton of LH starters this year. But Joe's splits are actually reversed this year: he's hit a solid-but-unspectacular 303/346/447 against lefties (in 81 PA) but only 257/323/321 against righties (124 PA).
Mauer is thirty-two, spent a lot of years at catcher, and has had injury problems. I'm not implying that I think he's done, but I do think he may never be what he once was.
Mauer had a 142 OPS+ in 2013 when his season was cut six weeks short by a concussion. Since then he has a 103 OPS+. His walk rate is way down this year while his batting average and slugging is identical to last year.
On top of everything else, that the Padre mentions, I think the developments of the strike zone have hurt Mauer significantly too. The lower outside corner on left-handed batters has extended to a place far beyond reasonable. That often forces lefties to go the other way in the air or hit to the right side on the ground, two things which Mauer already did a lot of. The zone developments have accelerated his tendencies, so he's much easier to play against than he used to be.
I also think he is especially susceptible to the extreme defensive shifts now frequently employed. With runners in scoring position, the infield has to stay a little more at home.
Well, I am not sure how any of these comments speak to the reverse splits this year. SSST fluke, or something real?
"pitcher-friendly Target Field."
I'm so old, I remember when it was a bandbox.
You're so old, you think you remember when it was a bandbox.
The cement is dry, dude.
I'm so old, I remember when it was debunked.
Humor: wasted on the young and old, apparently. 😉
It's all because ii and Everyday Eddie light each other's farts on fire.
On the radio this morning I heard this sentiment (more or less) expressed. They also gave some credit to Molitor.
Not having looked at any of the stats specifically, my eyeballs are telling me our pitchers have been better than last year. I'd like to see Neil Allen get some love.
They really got stretch got started when Arcia and Schafer got hurt leaving the Twins with two competent defensive outfielders for the first time in several seasons. It's amazing how much better a pitch to contact staff can perform when contact sometimes turns into outs.
That helps. I feel like I've also noticed K's at very relevant points, even from non-K pitchers. Like there's a specific plan in place that really helps a pitcher when he needs it.
do we have splits data on this?
I just glanced at the summary stats on Fangraphs. Last season, the Twins did not have a single starter with a BABIP below .300. This year, Hughes (.299), Gibson (.270) and Pelf (.275) are below .300. That is somewhat suggestive. Of course, Gibson and Pelf are ground-ball pitchers (or are this season, at least).
Perhaps ironically, the two starters with decent K rates, May (7.43 K/9) and Nolasco (7.71) also have pretty high BABIPs (.352 and .394, respectively). And they are the two starters with xFIPs below 4.00, thanks to low HR/FB rates, I think, and despite ERAs above 5.00. Maybe those two are being helped by improved OF defense....
I think a good case can be made that we're seeing the difference between dumpster fire pitching and not so great to mediocre pitching.
It's a fine line between stupid and clever.
Someone once told me this...
heh.
In case it wasn't clear, I didn't mean to imply that cheaps was walking that fine line, but rather that the Twins' pitchers were.
We got your back either way.
I guess Rhu is feeling pretty sassy now with his fancy new hip.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZbCH8SG7Lg
According to Sportscenter last night, liidership has made all the difference.
Same thing the KFGO guys said this morning too. And yesterday afternoon. "THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE LET HIM LEAVE."
Doogie was tweeting yesterday that he expects the Twins to extend him through 2016 soon. Please, no.
Truth be told, his offense has been solid, and often timely. I don't think he's the worst baseball move they could have made, and he's turned out better than what I had feared.
For all I know, he's had a positive impact on clubhouse morale and younger players. Maybe that's translating on the field. I don't have any reason to actually suspect one way or the other, and for all I know, neither does anyone else. (Though I will say, having just left an office with low morale, and now coming to an office with high morale, I know my experience has included improved performance... so maybe there's something there?). So I consider this a wash, at worst.
Right now, he's saying great things to the media and being a voice of support for his coaches, teammates, etc. I like it when he's "on message." But we got burned here with him before, and I know he's willing to go off-message to support hiimself first, and if that happens, I will be seriously peeved. Until it happens, I'm gonna try to sit on my hands with him. Performance issues, I'll still acknowledge, but right now, the offense has been nice.
Any player with ii's talent level can have a hot stretch or two, even at 39. But the cliff is in sight.
Last year, he had a 765 OPS, thanks in very large part to a 364/406/648 July. But he also had a 194/211/278 June.
Quick, let's get that extension done.
Can anyone think of another veteran hitter who got off to a much better expected offensive start and wanted an extension of his one year deal?
Ya, me neither.
Figure at some point the #MNTwins extend Torii Hunter through the 2016 season -- not like he's going anywhere. But no movement yet.
Doogie is speculating here, but he's at least a little plugged in. I'm hoping "no movement yet" is really true.
I know he's willing to go off-message to support hiimself first,
How much is an early extension insurance against this?
no movement yet
They have treatments for that.
This would be so stupid just because he's already said he wants to retire a Twin. Fine. He can do that 1 year at a time. At least with Suzuki, they extended him because his contract was expiring and he probably wouldn't be back. Of course, he had a .760 OPS when he signed on July 31. He then had a .656 OPS the rest of the year and has a .639 OPS thus far this season. Who could have seen that coming with a 31-year-old catcher with a career .688 OPS?
Whelp, I will say that I'm listening to the Jonah Keri podcast interview with Glen Perkins and Perkins is clearly a fan of Torii's impact on the clubhouse. Was kind of surprised.
I really don't recall a teammate ever saying anything negative about Torii, even with his farewell tour and everything else. He just has that charismatic personality that makes it hard for teammates and those semi close to him to see through it.
I really don't recall a teammate ever saying anything negative about Torii, even with his farewell tour and everything else.
To me, it's far more likey that the dude he tried to punch, and the dude he punched, are good folks who wouldn't run down a teammate in the press.
Also, given the favorable press Hunter receives, they may have known that was a battle they had no chance of winning and decided it was better not to join it in the first place.
Also, I'm guessing that, considering the nature of the situation, Prince Fielder didn't really want to discuss it in public.
Just saying here, I have friends who have tried to punch me at one point or another who I still respect.
Probably the bottom line is that none of us, unless someone has a source on the team I don't know about, really has any idea what Hunter's teammates actually think about him. Nor is there any good reason they should tell us.
Yeah, I'm pretty tired of the Torii backlash, to be honest. I certainly don't like everything he's said and done, but rooting for him to fail as if he were some sort of Disney-esque archfiend villain just seems so petty and bitter.
it kind of matches the toriibation in the press, however.
I'm nothing if not petty and bitter, honestly.
RE ii: I feel like this is one small corner of the internet where we actively challenge the conventional wisdom and party line, though we are prone to occasional hyperbole.
-I was displeased with the move to bring him back, mostly due to the makeup of the team and what I expected this summer to be. I thought we'd be watching an over-the-hill guy taking at-bats away from the young guys who they needed to learn more about for '16 and beyond.
-I'm not a fan of his politics and his rant at Berardino for asking what I thought was a fair (or at least not inappropriate) question was unprofessional and embarrassing.
-I've enjoyed both reminiscing & poking fun at his "2007 Farewell Twins, Hello X Team Tour" and rumored antics and antagonisms.
-In much the same way I did during the Jeter love fest, I roll my eyes whenever the mediots and announcers fawn over every positive outcome, as if no veteran in the history of baseball had ever moved a runner into scoring position.
-I'll even cop to dropping the occasional snarky "ii" comment into game logs.*
All that being said, I've never rooted for him to fail. I'll happily admit that he's brought some positive things to the table; contributions to the offense (his counting stats are currently at or only slightly below his career numbers) and his reportedly positive attitude on the bench and in the clubhouse. His defensive numbers aren't good, but they're not as horrible as they were last year and with Arcia, Schafer and Robinson all missing time (and the promotions of Hicks & Rosario), he hasn't hurt the team with his presence in right.
*though, in fairness, I also use it when he has a nice at-bat.
My mom had a friend that my dad called "Me-I" because of her focus on herself in conversations.
I read "ii" in the same sense.
I've enjoyed the baseball that Torii played for the Twins, and I've been pleased that he didn't take the Angels or Tigers to the pennant.
I'd still have preferred the Twins got Cuddy back instead.
I certainly think there's enough reason to not like the guy, but there's a difference between not liking someone and actively hating them. You and BrianS both mentioned that this place is like the anti-Strib in regards to Torii, but I would say that that's kinda lame. I know it's annoying that the media loves Torii more than they should (he's outgoing and charismatic, it doesn't surprise me at all that media types respond to that better than to a wooden plank like Mauer). But I don't think the counterbalance to the media's fawning is to angrily shit all over him at every opportunity. It's just as obsessive as the adoration he gets everywhere else, only it's mean-spirited and vindictive.
Angrily shitting might be just a bit hyperbolic, at least for my involvement.
There is always a certain amount of groupthink that creeps into a homogenous group.
That is why I have to constantly point out that I don't like Deerhoof!
I'll admit my feelings are mean-spirited and vindictive, which is how Torii acts towards people that he doesn't feel deserve equal treatment. I wish I could let it roll off my back but it's frustrating for the team to bring him back and have the mouthpieces of the organization and the media fawn all over him despite his warts. LaVelle was on the radio on Friday saying that ii had said last year if Hicks was late to the clubhouse he would've punched him and everyone had a big ol' guffaw over that. That Torii, what a prankster!
I dunno. I feel pretty powerless. I don't want to root for the guy, and the sooner he is off the team the sooner I can actually start enjoying baseball again. It has greatly impacted my enjoyment of baseball season, and most of my frustration stems from that.
Do I want him to fail? No, I don't. I'm a Twins' fan. I want the Twins to do well.
Do I like him, in light of a number of things he's done/said? Well, I don't know him at all. I'm just a fan. I don't particularly like or respect some of the things he's said or been quoted as saying or been rumored to have done.
Mostly, I'm annoyed with the media (and Stribbers) fawning over him, just as I was annoyed by the media fawning over Jeter, and just as I'm annoyed by much of the crap the media passes off as "journalism." My comments, generally, have been in reaction to the media and the Stribber types. But I don't actually lose any sleep over him. This is just entertainment.
If New Guy's point is that this is supposed to be fun and piling on ii around here makes this place not fun, well, that's a valid concern.
Zack I get where you (and everyone else) is coming from, Torii is a jerk, and the media back-patting only makes it worse. But in the same way that his presence diminishes your enjoyment of the team, the relentless Torii-bashing kinda diminishes my enjoyment of this site. I dunno. I guess I just feel like it's beneath the WGOM to be fixated on rooting against one guy. It feels too much like the ridiculous cheap shots that Strib commenters take at Mauer. Even thought Torii is a more deserving target, it's still tiresome.
And brianS you're totally right, "angrily shitting" was a very poor choice of words. "Gleefully mocking" is a more apt description, which I don't have a problem with in small doses but after a while isn't enough enough?
If Greekhouse ever pops by, then we can discuss "angrily shitting".
I don't know that Hunter's a jerk. He can come off that way sometimes, but as brianS said, we really don't know him. I'm sure he can be a really good guy sometimes, too. If someone followed any of us around and only remembered the bad things we did or said, we'd all look like jerks. If someone followed any of us around and only remembered the good things we did or said, we'd all look like saints. The truth is generally somewhere in between for all of us.
after a while isn't enough enough?
I think that this is where I am now. I still don't like the signing, but I'm over it. The lavish praise he gets is annoying, but my own thoughts aren't going to counter that so much as add to the noise, and I'm at the point where I'd rather enjoy baseball. It happens to be good right now, and even if the worm turns, getting up in arms about Torii Hunter isn't going to make me any happier. Misery may love company, but I'm not so sure company returns the sentiment.
I'm sure we could turn up more than a few comments that convey feelings of resentment, schadenfreude and bitterness or are mean-spirited and petty. Maybe I'm tone deaf, but I've always believed that only a small number of those comments were active hatred. Maybe my belief in the intelligence and high-mindedness of the people here is unfounded or naïve, but I have never felt that the snark or animosity directed at Torii was intentionally malevolent. Sure, it's a little more obsessive than our mocking Neck Tat or Slippersizzle or _elmon, but there's so much history with Hunter here that it's bound to be.
Another facet of it (I think) has to do with what moves we thought the team should've been making last offseason to reverse course after four lousy seasons. Cynicism suggested signing Hunter was a nostalgia play/money grab rather than a smart baseball move. When the fans and local media responded in adulation and then spend the month of May attributing the teams success to Torii's leadership, it's tough to swallow. When some in the mainstream media spend years opining that Mauer is an overpaid sissy, and that becomes an accepted fact for the vast majority of the listening & viewing public, it's hard not to be a bit unhappy and perhaps Torii has unfairly born the brunt of that resentment.
That being said, I'm happy to lay off the commentary if it diminishes the enjoyment for others. Though I'll still be using ii! when he does something awesome.
@CoC you have a point that roasting Twins players is a proud WGOM tradition. I don't comment nearly as often as I used to, but I still read the site every day if I can, and I guess I did see a tonal shift in the way Torii has been talked about. Like with Delmon and Swarzak et al it was always fairly playful, a sort of "you're a screwball but you're my screwball" type of thing. But with Torii it seems very aggressive and spiteful. And like I said, I understand why he isn't popular here, but it's an uncomfortable level of hostility for what is such a peaceful community.
I'll refer to this comment by Nibbish as pretty much summing up my feelings and, I think fairly representing those of many around here.
May 25, 2015 at 1:24 pm Edit
Torii hasnt been as bad as i was expecting/sort of hoping. I think I'm mostly over it, though I'll be more than happy to mock him when the opportunity allows.
And now Pedroia robs him of a hit. I know I dont like that.
It just hits all the key points: the substantive annoyance at the signing, the semi-submerged hope that he would tank, the open desire to mock him and his image when the opportunity strikes, and then the bottom line: we are Twins fans, and we want our guys to do well, even the ones we don't like.
Yeah, my thoughts remain fairly unchanged.
I'm still going to poke at him when his extremely limited range doesn't get him to a ball that, say, Josh Willingham would be catching.
All I'm going to say is that I learned to put up with a lot of things that were tiring to me at the old site. Sure, maybe (read: definitely) some of the stuff I wrote wore on people, too. But man, there were a lot of days when I'd say something and people would jab at me to the point where I couldn't even talk about things I like anymore. Since it was my site, I felt that stuff was directed right at me, whereas I rarely, if ever, was directing vitriol at a particular person at the site. People probably didn't realize how much that got on my nerves. I kind of wish that I could have said, "hey, knock it off." Maybe I should have. I'm digressing.
So yeah, things can wear on others. The site is more fun, far more fun, when the conversation is about more positive things. At times, though, people aren't in a mood to be positive. Like when a gunman walks into a school and shoots 20 first graders to death. I wasn't going to be silent, because I had to express my rage and sense of helplessness. That made people uncomfortable and we kind of accommodated that with the Spoiler feature.
Unfortunately, some people felt that using the spoiler feature for non-spoilers was not kosher. I disagreed with that, but we now have 'Spoiler' and Actual Spoiler. So, that's all good.
But, there comes a time, I suppose, when the subject needs to be changed. We used to retire jokes. Maybe we need to retire "Torii Hunter is a dickhead."
So, if somebody were to make plaques for the retired jokes and phrases, I'd be all for that! I mean, "Torii iis a diickhead" would fit nicely.
Torii Hunter isn't worth any more of my time than it takes to type this comment, but I endorse everything brianS and Can of Corn have said in this thread.
A lot has already been said about the issue already, so other than pointing out that it's a lot easier to strongly dislike Hunter because he actively worked to make other people's lives worse, I want to touch on something you said that makes a guy like Hunter more grating for someone like mE: the media fawning because he gives good quotes.
Basically, I don't think it's fair that you call Mauer a plank of wood because he's reserved to the media.I know I wouldn't have much to say if I had to go in front of microphones all the time, and its not because I'm boring.
Holy cats. I made this comment early, jet lagged, grammatically incorrect and I unintentionally implied that Torii was 'bad' by comparison to his 'good' teammates.
No doubt, I was pissed off that the FO spent money on an over the hill dude who had spurned the local fans on his way to a big payday, but I don't hate the dude. I also want the Twins to win as many ball games as possible.
That being said, I'm with you fellas*.
*in a non-gender specific way
SBG, and I like the spoiler feature because I can use it to punchline jokes without having to reply to myself.
I also remember another event that made shockwaves at the old basement, and required the some written simulacrum of the unwritten rules.
2008 GOP Veep Nom
Before that, there was some argument with moss.
Basically, I don't think it's fair that you call Mauer a plank of wood because he's reserved to the media.I know I wouldn't have much to say if I had to go in front of microphones all the time, and its not because I'm boring.
Yeah, fair enough. I don't think I would have much to say either. I really only meant in comparison to an energetic guy like Torii. Like, if I were a lazy reporter on a deadline, who would I rather interview, the charming loudmouth who will tell me exactly what he's thinking regardless of the consequences and who might drop a really juicy quote at any time, or the quiet, stoic guy who gives mild, thoughtful answers? I'm not saying it's right or good, I'm just saying that his popularity with media people makes sense.
Ah, I see. I read your comment incorrectly as you calling him a plank of wood. Its a frustrating aspect of our culture for me, although its not been nearly as annoying as it was in high school and college.
I'm with you cheaps. Giving boring quotes is not a character flaw. If I were on a team, I would prefer a quiet clubhouse leader to one who is good for a quote. Neither style is inherently bad, however, but those who present themselves more on the quiet side are much more likely to play the villain in the media narrative.
That's more the spirit of my jabs at Hunter here. It's not about him, more about the narrative. It's an eye roll at the "Hunter is carrying this young team on his back (something Mauer never did)" that too often replaces thoughtful analysis. It does get irritating and I am unable to follow this team and completely avoid it (I have tried).
It's not that he's a bad guy - as Jeff A says I don't really know that - while it's fair to judge his public image, that is not the totality of a person.
I'm still irritated over my last night's eBay bidding. I'd been waiting on a 1-of-1 baseball card that came up due last night. Instead of sniping my bid (which was almost twice the winning bid) gixen was stopped by eBay and asked for a confirmation login, I suppose because I'd muffed the previous login or something. That's two unique cards that have gotten away now.
I'm trying to sit up in bed, but there's a little swelling behind my knee and it feels like I'm doing a hurdler's stretch. I think I'll feel much better once I get the swelling down in my surgery leg.
I came into the office this morning to find it filled with balloons. 2 months late on April Fool's, but it seems we've finally had the favor returned.
Reading more in C. Kahrl's library, she wrote about Bryce Harper maybe not participating in the Home Run Derby. In the article, she makes a reference to dialing a meter up to 11, a reference to Nigel Tufnel's amps going to 11. It got me thinking. That bit from Spinal Tap has made its way into the culture in a big way.
Can you think of any other bits that have bled from a movie into the culture that are more pervasive than that one? I'm sure there are, but I'm drawing a blank right now.
About two weeks ago, I actually quoted Spinal Tap in a closing argument (not the eleven bit, though). Afterwards, everyone involved had a good chuckle.
At the Boy's bar mitzvah, I had occasion to quote the best-known aphorism by that renowned Western philosopher, Ben Parker. There was a mix of confused looks and knowing smiles.
An offer you can't refuse comes fairly close.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
It's an effing sled.
That's just like you're opinion, man
Wizard of Oz is pretty pervasive. "We're not in Kansas anymore," might be the most popular one used in regular conversation
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
also,
There's no place like home.
and, of course
I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog, too!
Yes, the W of O is a biggie.
Don't call me Shirley.
How does this discussion not have a Princess Bride reference yet?
It's inconceivable, I suppose.
How long did it take to decide between that and, "Fine, as you wish..."?
That would have been the most obvious choice, but I knew you'd think that was the obvious choice, so I would of course choose the less obvious option. But knowing that you're aware that I would probably choose the less obvious choice, I should have decided to go with the more obvious option, which of course you would know, which means that I needed to choose...
I once told a guy "We are men of action. Lies do not become us." He didn't have a response to that.
I don't think it is possible to golf with people of a certain age without hearing a Caddy Shack reference.
was watching a stockpiled episode of Supernatural last night. A mini-golf scene ensued, with dueling golf references (Caddy Shack from Dean, Happy Gilmore from Castiel's vessel's daughter).
Juuust a bit outside.
Don't roll your eyes at the ice capades, it was a very good living.
Last night I was leaving a restaurant and a polite old man asked me for food. I stuttered and apologized and told him I couldn't help him. But that's my general response when someone asks me for money. He asked me for food. And I was carrying leftovers I didn't really want.
Ugh. It's like as soon as I punch out the clock I forget I'm a social worker.
I've had that exact scenario before too... I feel ya. Heck, go read my 3 wishes story from Survivor X.
When I lived in Arlington I walked to the grocery store, and, when I remembered, I'd buy some extra fruit, knowing that there was about a 50/50 shot I'd get asked for something on the way home.
A couple years ago, my wife and I went up to Chicago for the day, visited the Museum of Science and Industry, then went to Cheesecake Factory for dinner. The dinner was great, but there was too much of it. Same with dessert. We were very much looking forward to enjoying it the next day.
On our way back to our car, on the EL, a homeless man asked for some food. My wife and I looked at each other, and we both knew what we had to do, we gave that lovely bag of leftovers to the guy. We were a little sad we didn't get our second helpings, but in the end, we know we did the right thing.
I just realized I should have wished AMR a happy 1-year anniversary this past Saturday!
Where were you this morning?
Why, did you bring me flowers?
I was on a bus 10 minutes before the one that offers optimal encounter opportunity. (However, the timing of that other bus has been off; two days last week I rode it but saw you already on the other side of Washington.)
And twice I saw you crossing Washington in the bus.
I didn't even see you seeing me. You're getting good!
My favorite was a week or two earlier when there were two busses in a row and I watched you casing the one in front of mine.
Did you see me seeing you this morning? I felt I was a bit too obvious about it.
So, much has been said about the Twins record - best month since 1991 when they won 15 in a row. Reminds me of a bet I nearly took with my baseball coach at the time. The Twins had just won 14, and he tried to bet me that they couldn't win 18 in a row. I nearly took him up on it, but decided against it, figuring they were due to lose soon. Sure enough, they won one more and that was it.
But, oh, that year was so fantastic. (Our little league team sucked, but the Twins were great!)
They won one more, Aggie blew a save in the 9th, then they won four (?) more. Oh so close.
That game is on in the background in "A Few Good Men." TK intentionally walked Cal Ripken during his MVP season and he came around to score the winning run.
the movie takes place in 1992, so I always loved that Tom Cruise was watching a replay of a random regular season game from the year before
Back in the day when Ted Robinson was the main TV play-by-play guy.
Also, I think TK ordered the code red.
my Little League team won the championship and I made the all-star team, so it was a pretty amazing year for me
My little league team blew, but we did a fundraiser and I earned a ton of money and got to throw out the first pitch at a game sometime in the middle of that streak (I think...), and met Kirby Puckett, so... it was a pretty amazing year for me.
Day game alert: Cedar Rapids, with Stephen Gonsalves pitching, hosts Clinton at noon today.
Gonsalves threw 6.2 innings of no-hit ball before allowing a single. He then finished off the seventh with his eleventh strikeout of the game.
The milb.com recap says it was 6.1 hitless innings. I would've sworn the Kernels' announcer said 6.2.
Either way, impressive and disappointing at the same time. Impressive to take a no-hitter that far, disappointing in that he couldn't take it all the way.
I'm going with impressive. Class A box scores don't give pitch counts, but with 11Ks and 4 walks, I have to think his was probably getting to the point where he'd have come out after seven innings regardless.
And the game story says it was 6.2 scoreless. So I still don't know what to believe. As you say, though, darn good either way.
Twins finally saw enough and promoted Gonsalves to Ft. Myers. Hopefully, there will be some other promtions, including Berrios to Rochester.
It seems like the Twins usually make a lot of minor league roster moves in early-to-mid June. Apparently, they think two months of minor league ball is about enough to tell who needs to move up. So I think you're probably right, there will be other promotions soon.
I still don't believe the AL standings update: MIN +3.5
HOU +3.0
KCR +3.0
DET -
LAA -0.5
NYY -1.5
TBR -1.5
TEX -1.5
Games above/below second wildcard
All other teams under .500.
An interesting article about former Twins reliever Tom Johnson.
Trueblood put up a great take on pitchers using foreign substances. It was behind a paywall, but Fox Sports picked it up, so now everyone can read it.
Also, if you're on Baseball Prospectus, it looks like today's article from him covers the Twins.
Heh. Here's a fun preview of that article:
This team has not shown any significant strengths, does have glaring weaknesses, and is marred by more or less all of the same problems they had last year: dreadful pitching depth, the worst strikeout rate in baseball, a brutal defense (especially in the outfield), and a tepid collection of guys who can only sort of hit. They’ve just been outrunning those problems. (Not literally. They’re a poor baserunning team.)
I read the preview to both those, guess I'll go back and read the entirety of the one that Fox picked up. He's written some pretty good stuff, good to see he's getting some wider exposure to audiences.
At least in the quote, he fails to mention their pitchers' walk rate, which is tied for the AL lead. Their 2.4 K/BB rate is only a little below average. And with Hicks and Rosario in the outfield, the defense is not that bad. Plus, I'll take ii over _elmon, Willingham, Arcia or any of the infielders/DHs the Twins have run out there recently. And what people seem to forget is the Twins have plenty of options in the minors for bolstering the team when the holes become more obvious. When they decide they need someone to actually hit in CF, they can call up Buxton. When they can no longer wait for '14 Danny Santana to show up, they can just put Escobar out there for average offense and defense for a shortstop. When Pelfrey regresses, they can call up Tommy Milone or even decide it's Jose Berrios' time.
Trueblood made the suggestion (and I know he's been beating this drum for a while, at least in person), that Plouffe could shift to LF, and Sano could take 3rd, with minimal defensive disruption. I don't know if it's true or not, but that wouldn't be horrible, I guess.
No way would I move Plouffe. He's made himself into a good third baseman. Sano has always been questioned about his defense and he's just coming off TJ surgery. He's young and supposedly somewhat athletic, so he would make more sense to move.
Yea, I thought the growing consensus was that Sano would eventually shift to another, less-demanding defensive position, a la Miggy.
The "he's coming off TJ surgery" always puzzled me. Pitchers get it all the time and they don't move off from being pitchers. What makes a position player different? Is it that they throw so much less that it* doesn't heal as well?
* It being the entire throwing mechanics, not just the ligament.
They don't move off from being pitchers, they just retire if it doesn't come back. I don't think there's any reason to think Sano won't return to full health, but it probably wouldn't hurt for him to throw less playing left field. My main concern is why would you move a guy that is playing well defensively for a guy that has always had his defense questioned. Sano should be able to hit well enough to play a corner outfield spot and I don't see any reason to think Plouffe would be all that much better in left field than Sano.
I think it's been said here before, but that K/BB rate is not very meaningful. Yes, it is nice to limit free passes. But missing bats is pretty damned important. Twins are dead last in the AL in K rate, tied for 11th in WHIP, 12th in opponent OBP, and just average at HR allowed. Put it all together, and they are below-average in FIP (11th) and OOPS (12th).
and yet...and yet, Twins' pitchers cumulatively are second in the AL in pitching rWAR.
Hall of Mirrors.
K/BB is especially misleading when the walk rate is low, something that frequently happens with this team. A K rate of 1.0 and a BB rate of 0.2 means you have a stellar K/BB of 5! Except you still suck. Remember, FIP uses K-BB for a reason.
Free passes are much worse than not striking out someone. A walk is a man on base 100% of the time. A non-strikeout is still an out somewhere around 70% of the time. It can be turned into extra-base hits, but it's been shown that reaching base is more important for a batter than hitting for power, so obviously the reverse is true that limiting free base runners for a pitcher is more important than limiting opportunities for extra-base hits. Look at the FIP formula. In an extreme case, if a pitcher never struck anyone out but also never walked anyone or gave up any home runs, his FIP would just be the constant (about 3.10). You can be successful with a bad K rate as long as you are very good in the other two metrics.
You can be successful with a bad K rate as long as you are very good in the other two metrics.
The Twins currently are 11th in the AL in FIP. I think I can just leave that right there.
Ok, I can't stand it. So I'll take another bite.
A walk is a man on base 100% of the time.
A single is a man on base 100% of the time. A double is a man on base 100% of the time. A triple is a man on base 100% of the time.
Realized outcomes for individual PA is not the way to make the case for the K:BB ratio.
FWIW, the Indians lead the AL in K/9 and are 11th in ERA.
They also lead in FIP (and K/BB). I'll take the under on their current ERA (4.02) for the rest of the season.
And while we're on the subject, if we're really worried about K rate, it looks like the Twins have been as well. Chattanooga and Cedar Rapids both lead their respective leagues in K/9 and Rochester is second. Ft. Myers is the only one of the full-season teams that is below average, and the Miracle have three relievers with K/9 of > 11.
If only those lower-level K-rates could quickly translate into missed bats in the Majors.
Hopefully, Thielbar will replace Duensing pretty soon. May has been getting 2+ K/9 over what Milone did. When Santana replaces Pelfrey, that should be a big jump.
I did not realize that Stovetop Stauffer had a guaranteed contract ($2.2m, apparently).
Man, I was not paying attention. What was TR thinking? This is a guy who is a right-handed power reliever who was below average in the NL against right-handed batters last year (allowing a 775 OPS). And outside the pitcher-friendly confines of Petco, gave up an 808 OPS. And a third of his balls-in-play on the year were line drives!
Good god. I made the mistake of looking at his Pitch f/x data on fangraphs. In 2014, he threw 287 four-seam and 286 two-seam fastballs, according to their data, giving up a 302/365/463 slash line. His third-most frequent pitch (215) was his slider (298/355/404).
I just don't understand what the Twins front office saw in him. I mean, yea, the ERAs the last two years looked shiny (3.75 in 69.67 in 2013 and 3.50 in 64.3 last year). But....
I mean, yea, the ERAs the last two years looked shiny
you answered your own question, unfortunately
Fortunately, he's not throwing as hard now so the Twins aren't throwing him out there in any real critical situations. Hopefully, his velocity won't return so they'll just get rid of him or DL him. Either way, they'll be paying him to not pitch. At least if they let him go, he might be able to suck for someone else.
The Twins' difference between their ERA and their FIP is only 0.20. There are 5 AL teams with bigger differences between their ERA and FIP (meaning teams that their ERA is better than their FIP by more than 0.20).
Uhmygawd. United can shove it. They split our reservation, and then combined our reservation, but now there is no record of my ticket. I may never make it home.
I'm taking United to Nashville tomorrow. With the way your trip is going, maybe I'll see you there.
They are THE WORST.
I submit American, but I wouldn't quibble with anyone's opinion of the worst because they all generally suck.
This. Record was found, but because I was never taken off the original cancelled flight I wasn't able to check in. No worries Mr. Meat they say, no worries. I had to talk Dr. Chop off the ledge. 4 more hours and counting until we board. Oh, and the flight is oversold, would I like to take a later flight like tomorrow for 100$ voucher? No, no I would not, but because I'm one of the last to rebook I may be SOL. Now, I'll have to find a xanex in preparation.
And now flash flood warnings.
/boooooooooooooooooooooo
Let me know if you manage to get stuck at O'Hare. That suddenly seems like a possibility given how things are going.
On the plus side I said hi to Aziz Ansari early this morning while waiting for the airtrain. Nice dude.
When I was stuck in Newark last spring for about 5 extra hours on my way home from Europe (thanks, United), there was a pigeon flying around inside the terminal. No one made any effort to capture/shoo him. When we landed in Minneapolis, I was about the last person off the plane and I heard the crew saying that they were really surprised that this flight wasn't canceled. So, I could have been in a very similar position as you. Apparently, cancelling flights (at least out of Newark) for United is not uncommon.
Re the pigeon, they've multiplied.
My flight from JFK to O'Hare (after flying from Moscow to New York) was delayed by nine hours because they didn't have a crew to fly the plane. Nobody available who could fly us from the airline's major hub to the second busiest airport in the U.S. I got into Chicago well after 2am, slept a few hours, drove home, then took Mrs Hayes to the ER, where I stayed for the next nine hours until she was admitted with a bowel obstruction.
Last time I ever fly JetBlow.
My favorite United experience was when New Gal and I were coming back from Croatia. Our tickets had us flying from Croatia to Germany to Minneapolis, only for some reason they "lost" our reservations for the Croatia to Germany leg and were unable to rebook us. We had to buy emergency one-way tickets to Germany to catch our remaining flights, and it wasn't until we got there and tried to get on the next plane that they told us our tickets were fully invalid. The German desk agent spent about 90 minutes trying to figure out how or why our tickets had been nullified, but was unable to come up with an explanation other than the fact that their booking system was complete trash. They got us on a flight home through Cleveland the next day, but we were on our own for a hotel. By the time we finally got to Cleveland, our flight from there to Minneapolis had already been canceled until the next day and once again they wouldn't give us a hotel voucher. We just slept on the airport floor. It took us three days to get home and almost a whole year before they finally recouped the thousands of unnecessary dollars we had spent (in the form of travel vouchers, of course). I will echo SBG here, United is THE WORST.
We worked pretty hard to get on an earlier flight, but we were rebuffed. That earlier flight has been significantly delayed to within a half hour of our departure time.
It's a lot easier to stomach after you've signed the $137 million contract.
Count the dolla dolla bills y'all.
Apparently the Twins game for tonight has already been rained out.
#cursed
Reminder/check for interest:
Anyone available for lunch in downtown St. Paul on Friday, June 5 at noon?
I'm interested. Not sure if I'm going to Indiana for some family stuff yet or not. If I'm in town, I'm there.
Yes for me ... DPWY said he can't make it this week.
Yup, I'll be up on the range for some hearings.
Book-ish citizens, I apologize. But First Monday Book Day has been temporarily reassigned to Sometime After First Monday Book Day.
Movie-ish Citizens (no, Spooky) here's my first recovery DVD. Oh em gee
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WWu1kclNDA
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYMD_W_r3Fg
I applied for a part-time, entry level job with the MN Historical Society at the Mill City Museum. It's only about ~15hr/week or so, but I'd be good at it and it'd be a foot in the door.
That's how I got into sports writing. I took an entry-level part-time job taking calls from high school coaches reporting results from their games and then I would write up the stats and a short story on the games. That turned into the opportunity to cover games on occasion, which turned into a full-time writing position at a smaller newspaper.
And because my phone browser really doesn't like super-long threads, I'm moving here for the Toriifest.
Today has been kind of an Airing of Grievances event. That's a good thing, right? But it has to end at some point, or it just becomes a cesspool.
So, in honor of yesterday, which was National Say Something Nice Day, I propose we have a "say something nice" thread!!!!111one111!!!
Continuing on SBG's theme, I just want to reiterate that if I say something that comes off as a jab or maybe mean spirited, it only sounds that way because I worded it poorly. I enjoy my time chatting here, and have met many of you in person, and if there's one thing I can say it's that I'm here as a friend. Some friends are better than others, but still. If we didn't care for each other, we wouldn't be volunteering help with car repair, raising children, or just plain staying sane, so take things with a grain of salt if you need to, but remember we all are rooting for the same team.
And Percocet.
I also appreciate that there are Citizens around here who will speak up when one of us goes too far or too persistently over the line.
Gold star today to New Guy. He's reminded us why we love this place and keep coming back. And taken appropriate action so that we will keep coming back.
Something nice, ok: I had three really good beers and an awesome burger with excellent service at Burger Republic in Nashville tonight.
Goat's Head Soup, huh? What to say about that...
Oh yeah, I know:
But man, there were a lot of days when I'd say something and people would jab at me to the point where I couldn't even talk about things I like anymore. Since it was my site, I felt that stuff was directed right at me, whereas I rarely, if ever, was directing vitriol at a particular person at the site. People probably didn't realize how much that got on my nerves. I kind of wish that I could have said, "hey, knock it off." Maybe I should have.
Heh.
Of course, it's the only Stones album I owned. 😉
But, on the other hand, it's a decent album. I mean, "Angie" is a nice ballad, and "Heartbreaker" rocks.
More seriously, while I've never been a huge Stones fan, I can definitely see the attraction. The boys could play.
If that's the only album of theirs you ever owned, that would explain why you weren't much of a fan. That's like owning only Led Zeppelin's Presence.
touché
I just wasn't much of an album buyer as a kid. I got that one because the old man used to bring home freebies from the Spamtown CC radio station, which he ran for several years. That's also how I got the 45 of the Doors' "Riders on the Storm."
Funny, I have a 45 of Cash's "(Ghost) Riders in the Sky"
Who do we blame for this Twins start? I blame Molitar.
Thick smoke and stylish mirrors. I don't care, I'm along for the ride anyway.
And on cue, Christina Kahrl has analysis on the Twins today. I've been reading her for about a decade and I can tell you, that she's not been afraid to rip the Twins, even during good times. With that knowledge as a backdrop, this is borderline high praise.
But still no love for Joe and his .420 RISP BA
what the hell is happening with Joe? The article points out that the Twins have faced a ton of LH starters this year. But Joe's splits are actually reversed this year: he's hit a solid-but-unspectacular 303/346/447 against lefties (in 81 PA) but only 257/323/321 against righties (124 PA).
Mauer is thirty-two, spent a lot of years at catcher, and has had injury problems. I'm not implying that I think he's done, but I do think he may never be what he once was.
Mauer had a 142 OPS+ in 2013 when his season was cut six weeks short by a concussion. Since then he has a 103 OPS+. His walk rate is way down this year while his batting average and slugging is identical to last year.
On top of everything else, that the Padre mentions, I think the developments of the strike zone have hurt Mauer significantly too. The lower outside corner on left-handed batters has extended to a place far beyond reasonable. That often forces lefties to go the other way in the air or hit to the right side on the ground, two things which Mauer already did a lot of. The zone developments have accelerated his tendencies, so he's much easier to play against than he used to be.
I also think he is especially susceptible to the extreme defensive shifts now frequently employed. With runners in scoring position, the infield has to stay a little more at home.
Well, I am not sure how any of these comments speak to the reverse splits this year. SSST fluke, or something real?
"pitcher-friendly Target Field."
I'm so old, I remember when it was a bandbox.
You're so old, you think you remember when it was a bandbox.
The cement is dry, dude.
I'm so old, I remember when it was debunked.
Humor: wasted on the young and old, apparently. 😉
It's all because ii and Everyday Eddie light each other's farts on fire.
On the radio this morning I heard this sentiment (more or less) expressed. They also gave some credit to Molitor.
Not having looked at any of the stats specifically, my eyeballs are telling me our pitchers have been better than last year. I'd like to see Neil Allen get some love.
They really got stretch got started when Arcia and Schafer got hurt leaving the Twins with two competent defensive outfielders for the first time in several seasons. It's amazing how much better a pitch to contact staff can perform when contact sometimes turns into outs.
That helps. I feel like I've also noticed K's at very relevant points, even from non-K pitchers. Like there's a specific plan in place that really helps a pitcher when he needs it.
do we have splits data on this?
I just glanced at the summary stats on Fangraphs. Last season, the Twins did not have a single starter with a BABIP below .300. This year, Hughes (.299), Gibson (.270) and Pelf (.275) are below .300. That is somewhat suggestive. Of course, Gibson and Pelf are ground-ball pitchers (or are this season, at least).
Perhaps ironically, the two starters with decent K rates, May (7.43 K/9) and Nolasco (7.71) also have pretty high BABIPs (.352 and .394, respectively). And they are the two starters with xFIPs below 4.00, thanks to low HR/FB rates, I think, and despite ERAs above 5.00. Maybe those two are being helped by improved OF defense....
I think a good case can be made that we're seeing the difference between dumpster fire pitching and not so great to mediocre pitching.
It's a fine line between stupid and clever.
Someone once told me this...
heh.
In case it wasn't clear, I didn't mean to imply that cheaps was walking that fine line, but rather that the Twins' pitchers were.
We got your back either way.
I guess Rhu is feeling pretty sassy now with his fancy new hip.
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ZbCH8SG7Lg
According to Sportscenter last night, liidership has made all the difference.
Same thing the KFGO guys said this morning too. And yesterday afternoon. "THEY NEVER SHOULD HAVE LET HIM LEAVE."
Doogie was tweeting yesterday that he expects the Twins to extend him through 2016 soon. Please, no.
Truth be told, his offense has been solid, and often timely. I don't think he's the worst baseball move they could have made, and he's turned out better than what I had feared.
For all I know, he's had a positive impact on clubhouse morale and younger players. Maybe that's translating on the field. I don't have any reason to actually suspect one way or the other, and for all I know, neither does anyone else. (Though I will say, having just left an office with low morale, and now coming to an office with high morale, I know my experience has included improved performance... so maybe there's something there?). So I consider this a wash, at worst.
Right now, he's saying great things to the media and being a voice of support for his coaches, teammates, etc. I like it when he's "on message." But we got burned here with him before, and I know he's willing to go off-message to support hiimself first, and if that happens, I will be seriously peeved. Until it happens, I'm gonna try to sit on my hands with him. Performance issues, I'll still acknowledge, but right now, the offense has been nice.
Any player with ii's talent level can have a hot stretch or two, even at 39. But the cliff is in sight.
Last year, he had a 765 OPS, thanks in very large part to a 364/406/648 July. But he also had a 194/211/278 June.
Quick, let's get that extension done.
Can anyone think of another veteran hitter who got off to a much better expected offensive start and wanted an extension of his one year deal?
Ya, me neither.
Doogie is speculating here, but he's at least a little plugged in. I'm hoping "no movement yet" is really true.
How much is an early extension insurance against this?
no movement yet
They have treatments for that.
This would be so stupid just because he's already said he wants to retire a Twin. Fine. He can do that 1 year at a time. At least with Suzuki, they extended him because his contract was expiring and he probably wouldn't be back. Of course, he had a .760 OPS when he signed on July 31. He then had a .656 OPS the rest of the year and has a .639 OPS thus far this season. Who could have seen that coming with a 31-year-old catcher with a career .688 OPS?
Whelp, I will say that I'm listening to the Jonah Keri podcast interview with Glen Perkins and Perkins is clearly a fan of Torii's impact on the clubhouse. Was kind of surprised.
I really don't recall a teammate ever saying anything negative about Torii, even with his farewell tour and everything else. He just has that charismatic personality that makes it hard for teammates and those semi close to him to see through it.
I really don't recall a teammate ever saying anything negative about Torii, even with his farewell tour and everything else.
To me, it's far more likey that the dude he tried to punch, and the dude he punched, are good folks who wouldn't run down a teammate in the press.
Also, given the favorable press Hunter receives, they may have known that was a battle they had no chance of winning and decided it was better not to join it in the first place.
Also, I'm guessing that, considering the nature of the situation, Prince Fielder didn't really want to discuss it in public.
Just saying here, I have friends who have tried to punch me at one point or another who I still respect.
Probably the bottom line is that none of us, unless someone has a source on the team I don't know about, really has any idea what Hunter's teammates actually think about him. Nor is there any good reason they should tell us.
Yeah, I'm pretty tired of the Torii backlash, to be honest. I certainly don't like everything he's said and done, but rooting for him to fail as if he were some sort of Disney-esque archfiend villain just seems so petty and bitter.
it kind of matches the toriibation in the press, however.
I'm nothing if not petty and bitter, honestly.
RE ii: I feel like this is one small corner of the internet where we actively challenge the conventional wisdom and party line, though we are prone to occasional hyperbole.
-I was displeased with the move to bring him back, mostly due to the makeup of the team and what I expected this summer to be. I thought we'd be watching an over-the-hill guy taking at-bats away from the young guys who they needed to learn more about for '16 and beyond.
-I'm not a fan of his politics and his rant at Berardino for asking what I thought was a fair (or at least not inappropriate) question was unprofessional and embarrassing.
-I've enjoyed both reminiscing & poking fun at his "2007 Farewell Twins, Hello X Team Tour" and rumored antics and antagonisms.
-In much the same way I did during the Jeter love fest, I roll my eyes whenever the mediots and announcers fawn over every positive outcome, as if no veteran in the history of baseball had ever moved a runner into scoring position.
-I'll even cop to dropping the occasional snarky "ii" comment into game logs.*
All that being said, I've never rooted for him to fail. I'll happily admit that he's brought some positive things to the table; contributions to the offense (his counting stats are currently at or only slightly below his career numbers) and his reportedly positive attitude on the bench and in the clubhouse. His defensive numbers aren't good, but they're not as horrible as they were last year and with Arcia, Schafer and Robinson all missing time (and the promotions of Hicks & Rosario), he hasn't hurt the team with his presence in right.
*though, in fairness, I also use it when he has a nice at-bat.
My mom had a friend that my dad called "Me-I" because of her focus on herself in conversations.
I read "ii" in the same sense.
I've enjoyed the baseball that Torii played for the Twins, and I've been pleased that he didn't take the Angels or Tigers to the pennant.
I'd still have preferred the Twins got Cuddy back instead.
I certainly think there's enough reason to not like the guy, but there's a difference between not liking someone and actively hating them. You and BrianS both mentioned that this place is like the anti-Strib in regards to Torii, but I would say that that's kinda lame. I know it's annoying that the media loves Torii more than they should (he's outgoing and charismatic, it doesn't surprise me at all that media types respond to that better than to a wooden plank like Mauer). But I don't think the counterbalance to the media's fawning is to angrily shit all over him at every opportunity. It's just as obsessive as the adoration he gets everywhere else, only it's mean-spirited and vindictive.
Angrily shitting might be just a bit hyperbolic, at least for my involvement.
I'm with New Guy.
Speaking of crapping on guys who are great teammates...
There is always a certain amount of groupthink that creeps into a homogenous group.
That is why I have to constantly point out that I don't like Deerhoof!
I'll admit my feelings are mean-spirited and vindictive, which is how Torii acts towards people that he doesn't feel deserve equal treatment. I wish I could let it roll off my back but it's frustrating for the team to bring him back and have the mouthpieces of the organization and the media fawn all over him despite his warts. LaVelle was on the radio on Friday saying that ii had said last year if Hicks was late to the clubhouse he would've punched him and everyone had a big ol' guffaw over that. That Torii, what a prankster!
I dunno. I feel pretty powerless. I don't want to root for the guy, and the sooner he is off the team the sooner I can actually start enjoying baseball again. It has greatly impacted my enjoyment of baseball season, and most of my frustration stems from that.
Do I want him to fail? No, I don't. I'm a Twins' fan. I want the Twins to do well.
Do I like him, in light of a number of things he's done/said? Well, I don't know him at all. I'm just a fan. I don't particularly like or respect some of the things he's said or been quoted as saying or been rumored to have done.
Mostly, I'm annoyed with the media (and Stribbers) fawning over him, just as I was annoyed by the media fawning over Jeter, and just as I'm annoyed by much of the crap the media passes off as "journalism." My comments, generally, have been in reaction to the media and the Stribber types. But I don't actually lose any sleep over him. This is just entertainment.
If New Guy's point is that this is supposed to be fun and piling on ii around here makes this place not fun, well, that's a valid concern.
Zack I get where you (and everyone else) is coming from, Torii is a jerk, and the media back-patting only makes it worse. But in the same way that his presence diminishes your enjoyment of the team, the relentless Torii-bashing kinda diminishes my enjoyment of this site. I dunno. I guess I just feel like it's beneath the WGOM to be fixated on rooting against one guy. It feels too much like the ridiculous cheap shots that Strib commenters take at Mauer. Even thought Torii is a more deserving target, it's still tiresome.
And brianS you're totally right, "angrily shitting" was a very poor choice of words. "Gleefully mocking" is a more apt description, which I don't have a problem with in small doses but after a while isn't enough enough?
If Greekhouse ever pops by, then we can discuss "angrily shitting".
I don't know that Hunter's a jerk. He can come off that way sometimes, but as brianS said, we really don't know him. I'm sure he can be a really good guy sometimes, too. If someone followed any of us around and only remembered the bad things we did or said, we'd all look like jerks. If someone followed any of us around and only remembered the good things we did or said, we'd all look like saints. The truth is generally somewhere in between for all of us.
I think that this is where I am now. I still don't like the signing, but I'm over it. The lavish praise he gets is annoying, but my own thoughts aren't going to counter that so much as add to the noise, and I'm at the point where I'd rather enjoy baseball. It happens to be good right now, and even if the worm turns, getting up in arms about Torii Hunter isn't going to make me any happier. Misery may love company, but I'm not so sure company returns the sentiment.
I'm sure we could turn up more than a few comments that convey feelings of resentment, schadenfreude and bitterness or are mean-spirited and petty. Maybe I'm tone deaf, but I've always believed that only a small number of those comments were active hatred. Maybe my belief in the intelligence and high-mindedness of the people here is unfounded or naïve, but I have never felt that the snark or animosity directed at Torii was intentionally malevolent. Sure, it's a little more obsessive than our mocking Neck Tat or Slippersizzle or _elmon, but there's so much history with Hunter here that it's bound to be.
Another facet of it (I think) has to do with what moves we thought the team should've been making last offseason to reverse course after four lousy seasons. Cynicism suggested signing Hunter was a nostalgia play/money grab rather than a smart baseball move. When the fans and local media responded in adulation and then spend the month of May attributing the teams success to Torii's leadership, it's tough to swallow. When some in the mainstream media spend years opining that Mauer is an overpaid sissy, and that becomes an accepted fact for the vast majority of the listening & viewing public, it's hard not to be a bit unhappy and perhaps Torii has unfairly born the brunt of that resentment.
That being said, I'm happy to lay off the commentary if it diminishes the enjoyment for others. Though I'll still be using ii! when he does something awesome.
@CoC you have a point that roasting Twins players is a proud WGOM tradition. I don't comment nearly as often as I used to, but I still read the site every day if I can, and I guess I did see a tonal shift in the way Torii has been talked about. Like with Delmon and Swarzak et al it was always fairly playful, a sort of "you're a screwball but you're my screwball" type of thing. But with Torii it seems very aggressive and spiteful. And like I said, I understand why he isn't popular here, but it's an uncomfortable level of hostility for what is such a peaceful community.
I'll refer to this comment by Nibbish as pretty much summing up my feelings and, I think fairly representing those of many around here.
It just hits all the key points: the substantive annoyance at the signing, the semi-submerged hope that he would tank, the open desire to mock him and his image when the opportunity strikes, and then the bottom line: we are Twins fans, and we want our guys to do well, even the ones we don't like.
Yeah, my thoughts remain fairly unchanged.
I'm still going to poke at him when his extremely limited range doesn't get him to a ball that, say, Josh Willingham would be catching.
All I'm going to say is that I learned to put up with a lot of things that were tiring to me at the old site. Sure, maybe (read: definitely) some of the stuff I wrote wore on people, too. But man, there were a lot of days when I'd say something and people would jab at me to the point where I couldn't even talk about things I like anymore. Since it was my site, I felt that stuff was directed right at me, whereas I rarely, if ever, was directing vitriol at a particular person at the site. People probably didn't realize how much that got on my nerves. I kind of wish that I could have said, "hey, knock it off." Maybe I should have. I'm digressing.
So yeah, things can wear on others. The site is more fun, far more fun, when the conversation is about more positive things. At times, though, people aren't in a mood to be positive. Like when a gunman walks into a school and shoots 20 first graders to death. I wasn't going to be silent, because I had to express my rage and sense of helplessness. That made people uncomfortable and we kind of accommodated that with the Spoiler feature.
But, there comes a time, I suppose, when the subject needs to be changed. We used to retire jokes. Maybe we need to retire "Torii Hunter is a dickhead."
So, if somebody were to make plaques for the retired jokes and phrases, I'd be all for that! I mean, "Torii iis a diickhead" would fit nicely.
Torii Hunter isn't worth any more of my time than it takes to type this comment, but I endorse everything brianS and Can of Corn have said in this thread.
A lot has already been said about the issue already, so other than pointing out that it's a lot easier to strongly dislike Hunter because he actively worked to make other people's lives worse, I want to touch on something you said that makes a guy like Hunter more grating for someone like mE: the media fawning because he gives good quotes.
Basically, I don't think it's fair that you call Mauer a plank of wood because he's reserved to the media.I know I wouldn't have much to say if I had to go in front of microphones all the time, and its not because I'm boring.
Holy cats. I made this comment early, jet lagged, grammatically incorrect and I unintentionally implied that Torii was 'bad' by comparison to his 'good' teammates.
No doubt, I was pissed off that the FO spent money on an over the hill dude who had spurned the local fans on his way to a big payday, but I don't hate the dude. I also want the Twins to win as many ball games as possible.
That being said, I'm with you fellas*.
*in a non-gender specific way
SBG, and I like the spoiler feature because I can use it to punchline jokes without having to reply to myself.
I also remember another event that made shockwaves at the old basement, and required the some written simulacrum of the unwritten rules.
Yeah, fair enough. I don't think I would have much to say either. I really only meant in comparison to an energetic guy like Torii. Like, if I were a lazy reporter on a deadline, who would I rather interview, the charming loudmouth who will tell me exactly what he's thinking regardless of the consequences and who might drop a really juicy quote at any time, or the quiet, stoic guy who gives mild, thoughtful answers? I'm not saying it's right or good, I'm just saying that his popularity with media people makes sense.
Ah, I see. I read your comment incorrectly as you calling him a plank of wood. Its a frustrating aspect of our culture for me, although its not been nearly as annoying as it was in high school and college.
I'm with you cheaps. Giving boring quotes is not a character flaw. If I were on a team, I would prefer a quiet clubhouse leader to one who is good for a quote. Neither style is inherently bad, however, but those who present themselves more on the quiet side are much more likely to play the villain in the media narrative.
That's more the spirit of my jabs at Hunter here. It's not about him, more about the narrative. It's an eye roll at the "Hunter is carrying this young team on his back (something Mauer never did)" that too often replaces thoughtful analysis. It does get irritating and I am unable to follow this team and completely avoid it (I have tried).
It's not that he's a bad guy - as Jeff A says I don't really know that - while it's fair to judge his public image, that is not the totality of a person.
I'm still irritated over my last night's eBay bidding. I'd been waiting on a 1-of-1 baseball card that came up due last night. Instead of sniping my bid (which was almost twice the winning bid) gixen was stopped by eBay and asked for a confirmation login, I suppose because I'd muffed the previous login or something. That's two unique cards that have gotten away now.
I'm trying to sit up in bed, but there's a little swelling behind my knee and it feels like I'm doing a hurdler's stretch. I think I'll feel much better once I get the swelling down in my surgery leg.
I came into the office this morning to find it filled with balloons. 2 months late on April Fool's, but it seems we've finally had the favor returned.
Reading more in C. Kahrl's library, she wrote about Bryce Harper maybe not participating in the Home Run Derby. In the article, she makes a reference to dialing a meter up to 11, a reference to Nigel Tufnel's amps going to 11. It got me thinking. That bit from Spinal Tap has made its way into the culture in a big way.
Can you think of any other bits that have bled from a movie into the culture that are more pervasive than that one? I'm sure there are, but I'm drawing a blank right now.
About two weeks ago, I actually quoted Spinal Tap in a closing argument (not the eleven bit, though). Afterwards, everyone involved had a good chuckle.
At the Boy's bar mitzvah, I had occasion to quote the best-known aphorism by that renowned Western philosopher, Ben Parker. There was a mix of confused looks and knowing smiles.
An offer you can't refuse comes fairly close.
Frankly, my dear, I don't give a damn.
Hey, hey, hey, hey-now. Don't be mean; we don't have to be mean, cuz, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
It's an effing sled.
That's just like you're opinion, man
Wizard of Oz is pretty pervasive. "We're not in Kansas anymore," might be the most popular one used in regular conversation
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
also,
There's no place like home.
and, of course
I'll get you, my pretty, and your little dog, too!
Yes, the W of O is a biggie.
Don't call me Shirley.
How does this discussion not have a Princess Bride reference yet?
It's inconceivable, I suppose.
How long did it take to decide between that and, "Fine, as you wish..."?
That would have been the most obvious choice, but I knew you'd think that was the obvious choice, so I would of course choose the less obvious option. But knowing that you're aware that I would probably choose the less obvious choice, I should have decided to go with the more obvious option, which of course you would know, which means that I needed to choose...
I once told a guy "We are men of action. Lies do not become us." He didn't have a response to that.
I don't think it is possible to golf with people of a certain age without hearing a Caddy Shack reference.
was watching a stockpiled episode of Supernatural last night. A mini-golf scene ensued, with dueling golf references (Caddy Shack from Dean, Happy Gilmore from Castiel's vessel's daughter).
Juuust a bit outside.
Don't roll your eyes at the ice capades, it was a very good living.
Last night I was leaving a restaurant and a polite old man asked me for food. I stuttered and apologized and told him I couldn't help him. But that's my general response when someone asks me for money. He asked me for food. And I was carrying leftovers I didn't really want.
Ugh. It's like as soon as I punch out the clock I forget I'm a social worker.
I've had that exact scenario before too... I feel ya. Heck, go read my 3 wishes story from Survivor X.
When I lived in Arlington I walked to the grocery store, and, when I remembered, I'd buy some extra fruit, knowing that there was about a 50/50 shot I'd get asked for something on the way home.
A couple years ago, my wife and I went up to Chicago for the day, visited the Museum of Science and Industry, then went to Cheesecake Factory for dinner. The dinner was great, but there was too much of it. Same with dessert. We were very much looking forward to enjoying it the next day.
On our way back to our car, on the EL, a homeless man asked for some food. My wife and I looked at each other, and we both knew what we had to do, we gave that lovely bag of leftovers to the guy. We were a little sad we didn't get our second helpings, but in the end, we know we did the right thing.
I just realized I should have wished AMR a happy 1-year anniversary this past Saturday!
Where were you this morning?
Why, did you bring me flowers?
I was on a bus 10 minutes before the one that offers optimal encounter opportunity. (However, the timing of that other bus has been off; two days last week I rode it but saw you already on the other side of Washington.)
And twice I saw you crossing Washington in the bus.
I didn't even see you seeing me. You're getting good!
My favorite was a week or two earlier when there were two busses in a row and I watched you casing the one in front of mine.
Did you see me seeing you this morning? I felt I was a bit too obvious about it.
So, much has been said about the Twins record - best month since 1991 when they won 15 in a row. Reminds me of a bet I nearly took with my baseball coach at the time. The Twins had just won 14, and he tried to bet me that they couldn't win 18 in a row. I nearly took him up on it, but decided against it, figuring they were due to lose soon. Sure enough, they won one more and that was it.
But, oh, that year was so fantastic. (Our little league team sucked, but the Twins were great!)
They won one more, Aggie blew a save in the 9th, then they won four (?) more. Oh so close.
That game is on in the background in "A Few Good Men." TK intentionally walked Cal Ripken during his MVP season and he came around to score the winning run.
the movie takes place in 1992, so I always loved that Tom Cruise was watching a replay of a random regular season game from the year before
Back in the day when Ted Robinson was the main TV play-by-play guy.
Also, I think TK ordered the code red.
my Little League team won the championship and I made the all-star team, so it was a pretty amazing year for me
My little league team blew, but we did a fundraiser and I earned a ton of money and got to throw out the first pitch at a game sometime in the middle of that streak (I think...), and met Kirby Puckett, so... it was a pretty amazing year for me.
Day game alert: Cedar Rapids, with Stephen Gonsalves pitching, hosts Clinton at noon today.
Gonsalves threw 6.2 innings of no-hit ball before allowing a single. He then finished off the seventh with his eleventh strikeout of the game.
The milb.com recap says it was 6.1 hitless innings. I would've sworn the Kernels' announcer said 6.2.
Either way, impressive and disappointing at the same time. Impressive to take a no-hitter that far, disappointing in that he couldn't take it all the way.
I'm going with impressive. Class A box scores don't give pitch counts, but with 11Ks and 4 walks, I have to think his was probably getting to the point where he'd have come out after seven innings regardless.
And the game story says it was 6.2 scoreless. So I still don't know what to believe. As you say, though, darn good either way.
Twins finally saw enough and promoted Gonsalves to Ft. Myers. Hopefully, there will be some other promtions, including Berrios to Rochester.
It seems like the Twins usually make a lot of minor league roster moves in early-to-mid June. Apparently, they think two months of minor league ball is about enough to tell who needs to move up. So I think you're probably right, there will be other promotions soon.
I still don't believe the AL standings update:
MIN +3.5
HOU +3.0
KCR +3.0
DET -
LAA -0.5
NYY -1.5
TBR -1.5
TEX -1.5
Games above/below second wildcard
All other teams under .500.
An interesting article about former Twins reliever Tom Johnson.
Trueblood put up a great take on pitchers using foreign substances. It was behind a paywall, but Fox Sports picked it up, so now everyone can read it.
Also, if you're on Baseball Prospectus, it looks like today's article from him covers the Twins.
Heh. Here's a fun preview of that article:
I read the preview to both those, guess I'll go back and read the entirety of the one that Fox picked up. He's written some pretty good stuff, good to see he's getting some wider exposure to audiences.
At least in the quote, he fails to mention their pitchers' walk rate, which is tied for the AL lead. Their 2.4 K/BB rate is only a little below average. And with Hicks and Rosario in the outfield, the defense is not that bad. Plus, I'll take ii over _elmon, Willingham, Arcia or any of the infielders/DHs the Twins have run out there recently. And what people seem to forget is the Twins have plenty of options in the minors for bolstering the team when the holes become more obvious. When they decide they need someone to actually hit in CF, they can call up Buxton. When they can no longer wait for '14 Danny Santana to show up, they can just put Escobar out there for average offense and defense for a shortstop. When Pelfrey regresses, they can call up Tommy Milone or even decide it's Jose Berrios' time.
Trueblood made the suggestion (and I know he's been beating this drum for a while, at least in person), that Plouffe could shift to LF, and Sano could take 3rd, with minimal defensive disruption. I don't know if it's true or not, but that wouldn't be horrible, I guess.
No way would I move Plouffe. He's made himself into a good third baseman. Sano has always been questioned about his defense and he's just coming off TJ surgery. He's young and supposedly somewhat athletic, so he would make more sense to move.
Yea, I thought the growing consensus was that Sano would eventually shift to another, less-demanding defensive position, a la Miggy.
The "he's coming off TJ surgery" always puzzled me. Pitchers get it all the time and they don't move off from being pitchers. What makes a position player different? Is it that they throw so much less that it* doesn't heal as well?
* It being the entire throwing mechanics, not just the ligament.
They don't move off from being pitchers, they just retire if it doesn't come back. I don't think there's any reason to think Sano won't return to full health, but it probably wouldn't hurt for him to throw less playing left field. My main concern is why would you move a guy that is playing well defensively for a guy that has always had his defense questioned. Sano should be able to hit well enough to play a corner outfield spot and I don't see any reason to think Plouffe would be all that much better in left field than Sano.
I think it's been said here before, but that K/BB rate is not very meaningful. Yes, it is nice to limit free passes. But missing bats is pretty damned important. Twins are dead last in the AL in K rate, tied for 11th in WHIP, 12th in opponent OBP, and just average at HR allowed. Put it all together, and they are below-average in FIP (11th) and OOPS (12th).
and yet...and yet, Twins' pitchers cumulatively are second in the AL in pitching rWAR.
Hall of Mirrors.
K/BB is especially misleading when the walk rate is low, something that frequently happens with this team. A K rate of 1.0 and a BB rate of 0.2 means you have a stellar K/BB of 5! Except you still suck. Remember, FIP uses K-BB for a reason.
Free passes are much worse than not striking out someone. A walk is a man on base 100% of the time. A non-strikeout is still an out somewhere around 70% of the time. It can be turned into extra-base hits, but it's been shown that reaching base is more important for a batter than hitting for power, so obviously the reverse is true that limiting free base runners for a pitcher is more important than limiting opportunities for extra-base hits. Look at the FIP formula. In an extreme case, if a pitcher never struck anyone out but also never walked anyone or gave up any home runs, his FIP would just be the constant (about 3.10). You can be successful with a bad K rate as long as you are very good in the other two metrics.
The Twins currently are 11th in the AL in FIP. I think I can just leave that right there.
Ok, I can't stand it. So I'll take another bite.
A single is a man on base 100% of the time. A double is a man on base 100% of the time. A triple is a man on base 100% of the time.
Realized outcomes for individual PA is not the way to make the case for the K:BB ratio.
FWIW, the Indians lead the AL in K/9 and are 11th in ERA.
They also lead in FIP (and K/BB). I'll take the under on their current ERA (4.02) for the rest of the season.
And while we're on the subject, if we're really worried about K rate, it looks like the Twins have been as well. Chattanooga and Cedar Rapids both lead their respective leagues in K/9 and Rochester is second. Ft. Myers is the only one of the full-season teams that is below average, and the Miracle have three relievers with K/9 of > 11.
If only those lower-level K-rates could quickly translate into missed bats in the Majors.
Hopefully, Thielbar will replace Duensing pretty soon. May has been getting 2+ K/9 over what Milone did. When Santana replaces Pelfrey, that should be a big jump.
I did not realize that Stovetop Stauffer had a guaranteed contract ($2.2m, apparently).
Man, I was not paying attention. What was TR thinking? This is a guy who is a right-handed power reliever who was below average in the NL against right-handed batters last year (allowing a 775 OPS). And outside the pitcher-friendly confines of Petco, gave up an 808 OPS. And a third of his balls-in-play on the year were line drives!
Good god. I made the mistake of looking at his Pitch f/x data on fangraphs. In 2014, he threw 287 four-seam and 286 two-seam fastballs, according to their data, giving up a 302/365/463 slash line. His third-most frequent pitch (215) was his slider (298/355/404).
I just don't understand what the Twins front office saw in him. I mean, yea, the ERAs the last two years looked shiny (3.75 in 69.67 in 2013 and 3.50 in 64.3 last year). But....
I mean, yea, the ERAs the last two years looked shiny
you answered your own question, unfortunately
Fortunately, he's not throwing as hard now so the Twins aren't throwing him out there in any real critical situations. Hopefully, his velocity won't return so they'll just get rid of him or DL him. Either way, they'll be paying him to not pitch. At least if they let him go, he might be able to suck for someone else.
The Twins' difference between their ERA and their FIP is only 0.20. There are 5 AL teams with bigger differences between their ERA and FIP (meaning teams that their ERA is better than their FIP by more than 0.20).
Uhmygawd. United can shove it. They split our reservation, and then combined our reservation, but now there is no record of my ticket. I may never make it home.
I'm taking United to Nashville tomorrow. With the way your trip is going, maybe I'll see you there.
They are THE WORST.
I submit American, but I wouldn't quibble with anyone's opinion of the worst because they all generally suck.
This. Record was found, but because I was never taken off the original cancelled flight I wasn't able to check in. No worries Mr. Meat they say, no worries. I had to talk Dr. Chop off the ledge. 4 more hours and counting until we board. Oh, and the flight is oversold, would I like to take a later flight like tomorrow for 100$ voucher? No, no I would not, but because I'm one of the last to rebook I may be SOL. Now, I'll have to find a xanex in preparation.
And now flash flood warnings.
/boooooooooooooooooooooo
Let me know if you manage to get stuck at O'Hare. That suddenly seems like a possibility given how things are going.
On the plus side I said hi to Aziz Ansari early this morning while waiting for the airtrain. Nice dude.
When I was stuck in Newark last spring for about 5 extra hours on my way home from Europe (thanks, United), there was a pigeon flying around inside the terminal. No one made any effort to capture/shoo him. When we landed in Minneapolis, I was about the last person off the plane and I heard the crew saying that they were really surprised that this flight wasn't canceled. So, I could have been in a very similar position as you. Apparently, cancelling flights (at least out of Newark) for United is not uncommon.
Re the pigeon, they've multiplied.
My flight from JFK to O'Hare (after flying from Moscow to New York) was delayed by nine hours because they didn't have a crew to fly the plane. Nobody available who could fly us from the airline's major hub to the second busiest airport in the U.S. I got into Chicago well after 2am, slept a few hours, drove home, then took Mrs Hayes to the ER, where I stayed for the next nine hours until she was admitted with a bowel obstruction.
Last time I ever fly JetBlow.
My favorite United experience was when New Gal and I were coming back from Croatia. Our tickets had us flying from Croatia to Germany to Minneapolis, only for some reason they "lost" our reservations for the Croatia to Germany leg and were unable to rebook us. We had to buy emergency one-way tickets to Germany to catch our remaining flights, and it wasn't until we got there and tried to get on the next plane that they told us our tickets were fully invalid. The German desk agent spent about 90 minutes trying to figure out how or why our tickets had been nullified, but was unable to come up with an explanation other than the fact that their booking system was complete trash. They got us on a flight home through Cleveland the next day, but we were on our own for a hotel. By the time we finally got to Cleveland, our flight from there to Minneapolis had already been canceled until the next day and once again they wouldn't give us a hotel voucher. We just slept on the airport floor. It took us three days to get home and almost a whole year before they finally recouped the thousands of unnecessary dollars we had spent (in the form of travel vouchers, of course). I will echo SBG here, United is THE WORST.
We worked pretty hard to get on an earlier flight, but we were rebuffed. That earlier flight has been significantly delayed to within a half hour of our departure time.
An SI story about Johan Santana's no hitter and the aftermath
It's a lot easier to stomach after you've signed the $137 million contract.
Count the dolla dolla bills y'all.
Apparently the Twins game for tonight has already been rained out.
#cursed
Reminder/check for interest:
Anyone available for lunch in downtown St. Paul on Friday, June 5 at noon?
I'm interested. Not sure if I'm going to Indiana for some family stuff yet or not. If I'm in town, I'm there.
Yes for me ... DPWY said he can't make it this week.
Yup, I'll be up on the range for some hearings.
Book-ish citizens, I apologize. But First Monday Book Day has been temporarily reassigned to Sometime After First Monday Book Day.
Movie-ish Citizens (no, Spooky) here's my first recovery DVD. Oh em gee
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4WWu1kclNDA
httpv://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYMD_W_r3Fg
I applied for a part-time, entry level job with the MN Historical Society at the Mill City Museum. It's only about ~15hr/week or so, but I'd be good at it and it'd be a foot in the door.
That's how I got into sports writing. I took an entry-level part-time job taking calls from high school coaches reporting results from their games and then I would write up the stats and a short story on the games. That turned into the opportunity to cover games on occasion, which turned into a full-time writing position at a smaller newspaper.
And because my phone browser really doesn't like super-long threads, I'm moving here for the Toriifest.
Today has been kind of an Airing of Grievances event. That's a good thing, right? But it has to end at some point, or it just becomes a cesspool.
So, in honor of yesterday, which was National Say Something Nice Day, I propose we have a "say something nice" thread!!!!111one111!!!
I'll start.
Goat's Head Soup was my favorite Stones album that I owned.
Continuing on SBG's theme, I just want to reiterate that if I say something that comes off as a jab or maybe mean spirited, it only sounds that way because I worded it poorly. I enjoy my time chatting here, and have met many of you in person, and if there's one thing I can say it's that I'm here as a friend. Some friends are better than others, but still. If we didn't care for each other, we wouldn't be volunteering help with car repair, raising children, or just plain staying sane, so take things with a grain of salt if you need to, but remember we all are rooting for the same team.
And Percocet.
I also appreciate that there are Citizens around here who will speak up when one of us goes too far or too persistently over the line.
Gold star today to New Guy. He's reminded us why we love this place and keep coming back. And taken appropriate action so that we will keep coming back.
Something nice, ok: I had three really good beers and an awesome burger with excellent service at Burger Republic in Nashville tonight.
Goat's Head Soup, huh? What to say about that...
Oh yeah, I know:
Heh.
Of course, it's the only Stones album I owned. 😉
But, on the other hand, it's a decent album. I mean, "Angie" is a nice ballad, and "Heartbreaker" rocks.
More seriously, while I've never been a huge Stones fan, I can definitely see the attraction. The boys could play.
If that's the only album of theirs you ever owned, that would explain why you weren't much of a fan. That's like owning only Led Zeppelin's Presence.
touché
I just wasn't much of an album buyer as a kid. I got that one because the old man used to bring home freebies from the Spamtown CC radio station, which he ran for several years. That's also how I got the 45 of the Doors' "Riders on the Storm."
Funny, I have a 45 of Cash's "(Ghost) Riders in the Sky"
😛